Classic Catamaran

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by FirstLight, Sep 17, 2007.

  1. FirstLight
    Joined: Sep 2007
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    Location: North Carolina

    FirstLight Junior Member

    Hello All,

    After a few months searching for my ideal set of plans I thought I'd write the group and see if anybodies come across what I'm in search of...

    My search begins with the desire for a catamaran between 44 and 48 feet LOA. Intended use is Caribbean cruising and south pacific cruising. Mercifully tradewind sailing.

    The boat should be decent to weather (100 degree tacking angle) and be able to achieve 10 knots in 15 knots of breeze in flat water on a reach.

    Hobby horsing is not acceptable.

    Here's the kicker.. It needs to have more traditional lines. I've had a few drools over the Schionning, Hughes and Chris White Designs however the lines are not of a boat I would like to call home. The sailing performance from each of these designers was awesome but I've got to get warm inside when bringing the dink out to the boat.

    The Wharram cats are absolutely lovely! The lines of the Pahu 52 sit nicely with me however my understanding is that the boat hobby horses quite a bit based on the amount of rocker and prismatic coeficient.

    I'm hoping to find a design that marries both worlds together. We've all seen dozens of monohulldesigns that incorporate the stylying of Herreschoff with the underwater shapes of modern sailing boat.

    Hoping something like that might existing in the land of multihulls..

    Any ideas??

    Thanks..

    Rocco
     
  2. northerncat
    Joined: Jan 2007
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    Location: australia

    northerncat Senior Member

    build an easy catamaran (peter snell designs) or one from bob orams stables, both have the added bonus of being quick to build
    sean
     
  3. brian eiland
    Joined: Jun 2002
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    Location: St Augustine Fl, Thailand

    brian eiland Senior Member

  4. FirstLight
    Joined: Sep 2007
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    Location: North Carolina

    FirstLight Junior Member

    Lovely Lines..

    Thanks Brian,

    Those are some lovely lines.. I like the lines of the Peter Wormwood designs...

    The sheer reminds me of the Rudy Choi classics...

    I'm hoping to find something with more of a Polynesian look with a contemporary hydro profile (if possible)..

    Although the Rudy Choi look is something I haven't seen in a while...

    THanks...

    T
     
  5. brian eiland
    Joined: Jun 2002
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    Location: St Augustine Fl, Thailand

    brian eiland Senior Member

    Actually Peter Wormwood was a big fan of Peter Spronk's early work in the Caribbean




    I don't think you will find anything out there in modern materials or hull design. You will most likely will have to go for a custom design
     
  6. FirstLight
    Joined: Sep 2007
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    Location: North Carolina

    FirstLight Junior Member

    Ahh Yes..

    I believe I met Peter in the Caribbean a few years back. Can;t rememer where.. Maybe Bequia or Grenada...

    Let me ask you this question..

    I've considered a custom design based on wanting to build my boat. I've got a builder lined up and am hoping to play a bit with the interior on my own (too many years of Rhino to count)..

    I guess you could say my requirements would be:

    1. Design something off of my sketches re look and feel.
    2. Design hulls
    3. Provide Lay-Up schedule
    4. Do not detail interior..
    5. Specsailplan according to my sketches..

    I have no experience working with designers so I wouldn't know where to begin or what is accepted..

    Anyways.. If one where to fathom acost of a custom design for something in that area what would you guess??

    T

    Mercifully
     
  7. brian eiland
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    Location: St Augustine Fl, Thailand

    brian eiland Senior Member

    Would that be Wormwood or Spronk. I believe Spronk returned to Europe quite a few years ago and has since passed away.


    Sounds to me that with your numerous years of Rhino experience and knowing what you are looking for, you could virtually design this vessel yourself. Then you would like verification of layup schedules and specs for the rigging.

    Depending on the build dwgs you might require ("based on wanting to build my boat"). I would guess you should be able to negoiate a design fee of 6-7% of the construction cost. The normal being around 10%. And think about it, even the 10% figure is not that bad considering the expertise you gain compared to the broker that commands the same sort of fee to simply sell a vessel....no contest.

    I would strongly recommend you have the shell (hulls & deck) constructed by a profession boat construction business. Overall the cost of the shell of the vessel represents at most 25% of the cost of the finished vessel. But it also represents a formidable task in time and effort to the home builder. It's best to get this portion of the project done in a fast, efficient manner, and then get on with the other task of finishing out the vessel.

    Reality check... How much are you thinking this finished vessel will cost you??
     
  8. fhrussell
    Joined: Dec 2004
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    Location: Long Island, NY

    fhrussell Boatbuilder

    CSK Catamarans

    Hey Rocco,
    Where in VT are you? I have most of the classic CSK (Rudy Choy) drawings and am planning a trip up to VT to visit my father for a weekend. He's around Middlebury. If you are interested, I could show you some plans.
    Best,
    Frank
     
  9. waikikin
    Joined: Jan 2006
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    Location: Australia

    waikikin Senior Member

    Firstlight, this is like a vague memory but I remember seeing a real nice cat on the cover of Woodenboat magazine like 15 years ago, built or designed maybe by Jim brown? or some one he worked with, nice sheer, classic styling & maybe constant camber hulls, painted in creamy colour , 43-4 foot long, might have been called Anna Kay? but its a long time!, but looked like it might suit you. Regards from Jeff:)
     
  10. FirstLight
    Joined: Sep 2007
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    Location: North Carolina

    FirstLight Junior Member

    Brian,

    Thanks for the response.. Off doing a bit of sailing for a couple weeks.

    You're thoughts address how I am approaching this project.

    I should have mentioned that none of my Rhino time is using surfaces but mostly the design features for mechanical engineering.

    In addition to rig design and lay-up schedule I'd need some help for getting the hydrodynamics correct...

    I've thought about the build in both respects.. Building the entire boat and then procuring the hulls and beams and building the rest on my own.

    I've calculated out about $104k in material for the build. $37k for shell, $32k for rig, sails and engine and another $35k for other remainder. THis is with a sparse interior and excludes all labor. I threw another $4k in for tools and $8k in for a temporary shed (basically a greenhouse with a gravel floor and a strongback tied set with 4" x 4" posts setin cement 3' deep).

    I think about the hokiness of the shed and go right to having someone else build the shells.. Need to think about that.

    I can't remeber which Peter it was.. It was about 12 years ago... Don't know. However, my wife reminded me we were at Basil's on Mystique.. Probably a guy named Pete that designed cars.. That was many rum's ago.

    More thought required on this end... Thanks for you input..

    I assume designerscharge by the hour?? What is their usual rate??

    All the best,

    Rocco
     
  11. nero
    Joined: Aug 2003
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    Location: Marseille, France / Illinois, US

    nero Senior Member

    Brian has great words of wisdom about having the hulls built.

    From my current adventure, I am learning alot. But, I have now spent three 5-month building seasons and the hulls are not done.

    Challengs are/were finding enough lumber at a reasonable price. Glassing large surfaces without help. Moving and turning really big hull parts.

    So the above work time includes designing and welding an overhead hoist, and a 40 foot trailer, setting up shop, and trucking in supplies. Not to mention all the fun of strip planking and glassing in 90 to 100 degree dust filled barn. smile

    I could have easily worked 9 months to pay for someone else to have done the work. Oh well ...
     
  12. FirstLight
    Joined: Sep 2007
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    Location: North Carolina

    FirstLight Junior Member

    Hey Nero,
    Thanksfor the input.. Funny how logically it seems to make so much sense to build the hulls else where but the little inner voice keeps wanting to to it.

    Perhaps I'll build a 2"=1' model first to get it out of my system and then hopefully it will sink in that setting a greenhouse up in my field in the middle of the tundra is not such a great idea..

    What are you building by the way??

    Rocco
     
  13. nero
    Joined: Aug 2003
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    Location: Marseille, France / Illinois, US

    nero Senior Member

    Model making makes the urge to build worse! I made a 1/10 scale model. (metric is much easier) It went fast.

    Still I must post, I have no regrets about having done it myself. It is a good learning experience. ... life is only experiences.

    Will post a few update photos of my project soon. There are a few renderings of an early version of the 14.5 meter cataran in my gallery.
     
  14. tnflakbait
    Joined: Nov 2007
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    Location: California

    tnflakbait New Member

    Rudy Choy Designs...

    Rocco,

    You might want to check out some of the CSK designs that Frank has. If you like this classic Polynesian look, CSK cats are a good bet. With a few modifications these boats could be greatly improved from their original design. You would want a little less overhang in the bow, extending the waterline. You would possibly want the hulls redrawn symmetrically for more load, and interior volume.

    I can attest that the performance of these boat is really great. It is the least outdated part of the designs. They point very well, because of dagger boards and asymmetrical hulls. Pretty much every CSK ever designed is capable of over 20 kts. I sail a 1964 33' csk and it will beat most of the new cruising cats in its size range. (It even does well against my friends Atlantic 42);)

    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cskcatamarans/

    Good luck!
     

  15. yipster
    Joined: Oct 2002
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    Location: netherlands

    yipster designer

    ai, my feelings also, have a look in my gallery for the ladybird filosofy :D
     
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