choosing designer / naval architect

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by ViennaYachtworx, Aug 25, 2010.

  1. ViennaYachtworx
    Joined: Oct 2009
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    ViennaYachtworx Junior Member

    Dear daiquiri,
    post where and how? (what should the post include?) do you have a link?

    Dear apex,
    What do you mean by the requirements are just wrong. As you can see in the examples above, it is prooved beyond reasonable doubt to be technologically possible. Whether or not it is feasible to use carbon, sandwich, autoclave and other expensive technologies is then to be worked out with the chosen designer.

    Dear Wavewacker,
    Do you mean we should post how much we are willing to pay for such a design? I have no idea how much this may cost. I suppose it also depends on how detailed the plans will be, right?
     
  2. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    Your SOR is a bit far outside the easy task. The more sensible approach would be to go for a fast, slender displacement craft, as others mentioned.
    Therefore it will get difficult to find a NA who first has to be convinced that he is doing something sensible, and finally successful, before he thinks about a contract.
    NA´s are not attracted by being used as servant of external phantasies. They do not like to risk failure due to being bound to exaggerated conditions.
    No matter the fee.
    Of course if there is a strict SOR "regardless of cost", and a very attractive royalty fee upfront, I see a chance to achieve the task finally.

    But that is most likely not the case.

    Regards
    Richard
     
  3. Alik
    Joined: Jul 2003
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    Alik Senior Member

    +100

    I should add this on 'our design philosophy' page :D

    A had few customers with requiests like this. They 'invented' new craft and wanted us to do engineering (yep, they are creative and do the design, let others do dirty job)... Some of these 'watercraft designers/inventors' could not even swim...
     
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  4. ViennaYachtworx
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    ViennaYachtworx Junior Member

    Dear apex,

    I understand where you're coming from. Unfortunately we as dealers have to meet market demand, which mostly is not sensible at all. We could of course explain potential customers the constraints of reality and try to convince them to sensible solutions, but we choose to make money instead by selling them what they want. (unless of course we know it can't work, then we're forced to take the first route and be criticised for it)

    btw, what is "SOR"?

    Dear Alik,
    If life was easy as a *insert your job description*, then everybody would be doing it.. ;)
     
  5. Alik
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    Alik Senior Member

    [​IMG]

    Vienna, I believe something like this has much more potential as electrical powered craft. Quiet, slow, suitable for couple or for family, for lakes and ponds. This is what electrical propulsion is good for :)
     
  6. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    I doubt there is any market demand for that craft you want.

    Regards
    Richard
     
  7. daiquiri
    Joined: May 2004
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    Location: Italy (Garda Lake) and Croatia (Istria)

    daiquiri Engineering and Design

    SOR is Statement of Requirements. Your wishlist, in other words. :) But it has to contain some data which a designer can use to perform some preliminary calculations and styling, check the feasibility and send you a proposal.
    For example:
    • Length overall
    • Beam overall
    • Weight
    • Motor power and type
    • Inboard or outboard
    • Open or closed deck
    • with a cabin or not, with berthing or not, with headroom or not
    • Range or endurance
    • Prefered materials and/or construction method
    • Particular styling requirements (you can also indicate an existing boat with a styling you particularily like)
    • Particular equipment requirements
    • Brief description of typical intended usage and environmental conditions (inland, sheltered or open water, typical weather conditions in the area where it will be used)
    That could be a basic initial SOR, for example. It will probably be somewhat renegotiated during the design process, as some particular problematics or solutions will inevitably arise.
    Hope that helps. Cheers!
     
  8. Alik
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    Alik Senior Member

    It is not just about project being too difficult, or too risky.

    Professional NA will feel if project is not feasible, and in this situation taking the money from customer is not fair business.
     
  9. daiquiri
    Joined: May 2004
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    Location: Italy (Garda Lake) and Croatia (Istria)

    daiquiri Engineering and Design

    Richard, you surely know the market better than many people here, but I believe it could carve it's niche in the market. A light-weight electrical tender for those who don't like or want RIBs on their deck, for example. It would also allow you to visit naturalistic areas without disturbing the animals with the engine sound. Or, one-day picnic cruise around the local lake.
    The production numbers and the profitability will strongly depend on the final price of the boat, of course. That's where the true battle will be fought (and possibly lost :p ), if it passes the technological feasibility check.
    Of course, that's just my opinion. A market analysis is necessary for such a non-ordinary project.
     
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  10. Alik
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    Alik Senior Member

    Yes, the question is only: should such craft be planning? :)
     
  11. daiquiri
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    daiquiri Engineering and Design

    Yep, that is a fundamental one. Which might gets us to the even older question on which we have debated in this forum: is the client always right? :)

    But, I'd like to see the SOR first. It might contain more surprises. ;)
     
  12. Alik
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    Alik Senior Member

    Customer for boat design, right? First of all, make sure he can swim! :D
     
  13. daiquiri
    Joined: May 2004
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    Location: Italy (Garda Lake) and Croatia (Istria)

    daiquiri Engineering and Design

    And put him on a very rigid diet (better yet, starve him) before boarding the boat. ;)
     
  14. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    Of course the average client would like it "planing" if you ask him. But the same client does not know and will never see a difference, between fast displ. and planing.

    Of course I can imagine market potential for something "out of the box" with El. propulsion. The question is, how much I must exaggerate twisting the sensible limits to achieve customers requirements.

    Of course the client is rarely ever right, as we know.

    So then,

    both of you have the potential to develop such a design when the SOR is reasonable.
    Both of you are proven values in this field.

    Go, have a try on it. I could well imagine a joint venture between Thailand and Italy.
    Lets check how far the claims are in compliance with the facts, to start with.

    There is a PM and e mail function on this board..........:)

    But please keep the further discussion open here! (maybe not the royalty fees)

    Regards
    Richard
     

  15. Alik
    Joined: Jul 2003
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    Alik Senior Member

    The difference is only in amount of spray, isn't it? :D

    No, no, no more 'weird-boats'! Better I draw one more interceptor craft.
     
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