Chev 350 Inboard: problems after replacing a starter

Discussion in 'Powerboats' started by mikealston2428, Sep 1, 2012.

  1. mikealston2428
    Joined: Jul 2011
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    Location: aussie

    mikealston2428 Senior Member

    Hi all,

    I have a boat with a SB 350 chev inboard and a older model mercruiser leg (MC1)

    All was running fine until I replaced the starter motor.

    The new start is making a horrible sound, not ingaging the flywheel.

    I thought I would turn the engine over abit by hand using the front pully.
    There was no way I could move the motor even the smallest amount.
    I know the motor is not seized or anything like that, stuck in gear maybe ?

    Next thing I treid was to lower the leg and using the remote put the leg ingear, I would then see if i could free up the motor by turning the prop.

    With the remote in gear the prop spins freely, leg not going into gear.

    1 - Starter not turning motor over and making a horrilble noise.

    2 - Engine will not turn, stuck in gear ?

    3 - Leg not going into gear.

    Not sure were to start with this lot.

    Please help.

    Cheers,
    Mike.
     
  2. DCockey
    Joined: Oct 2009
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    Location: Midcoast Maine

    DCockey Senior Member

    Very doubtful that you can turn the engine over by hand using the front pulley.

    "All was running fine until I replaced the starter motor.

    The new start is making a horrible sound, not ingaging the flywheel."


    Sounds to me like the starter motor has the wrong size pinion or the starter shaft wound up in a different position. How carefully did you compare the new starter motor to the old one you removed? Was anything else changed other than removing the old starter and bolting in the new starter?
     
  3. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    Location: Eustis, FL

    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    You can turn the engine over by the crank pulley, but you'll need a socket and breaker bar of some length to make it reasonably easy with the plugs in.

    If all you did was change the starter, then this is the place to look. A horrible noise isn't very descriptive. Can you do better? Typical noises are a clang usually followed by a wizz sound, suggesting the Bendix it shooting out but hitting the ring gear, instead of engaging it. Ticking sounds indicate a solenoid issue. A grinding sound usually means the Bendix is mashing against the flywheel or ring gear or the teeth are way too tight during engagement.

    Typically the starter will need to be shimmed to get a good fit. You can shim the starter down if the teeth fit is too tight and/or you can shim it back to prevent the pinion from bashing the flywheel when the solenoid is energized. It's a trial and error process, but not hard. You might have to try a few different sets of shims, but most can get this process done in a 1/2 hour.

    As to your shifting issue, well this is a wholly different matter and should also be easy to sort out. Check your shift linkages for proper adjustment.
     
  4. Frosty

    Frosty Previous Member

    Crickey don't do anything else . remove the starter and compare with the old Im sure it will be obvious.

    You sure you did not loose or drop a shim plate from the starters face.

    Dont try to engage any more you are doing damage.
     
  5. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Comparing will not do much, the difference will be quite small and not plainly visible. If you can't ID the problem from symptoms and/or noises, you're probably in over your head and should take it to someone with some experience.
     
  6. Frosty

    Frosty Previous Member

    The starter cog is obviously bolted up tight the the starter ring gear, hence he cant bar the engine. This should have at lease 1/4 inch clearance. Comparing the two will be obvious.

    Even a small difference is not acceptable you need identical.

    Measure with vernier guage and you will find you problem.
     
  7. mikealston2428
    Joined: Jul 2011
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    mikealston2428 Senior Member

    I have removed the plugs to try and turn over engine using bar on pulley.

    It wont move, locked up tight.

    The noise the starter is making is not a spinning sound, its a high speed crunching sound, i have only turned key on briefly due to this noise and not turned it again.
    :confused:
     
  8. Frosty

    Frosty Previous Member

    The reason you cant turn the engine is the WRONG starter it is bolted up tight to the ring gear because it IS TOO LONG. Taking the plugs out ?----what will that do.

    More bad new is you may have damaged the ring gear or flex plate.

    When the stater was tightened up you should have felt something was wrong. The starter should go face up.

    Put the plugs back in before dirt gets in and remove the starter.

    You should be able to turn an engine over with the alternator nut, Compression wont stay in the cylinder long. Its not a 1928 silver Ghost.
     
  9. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Belts just slip if the plugs are in Frosty. You're right the Bendix drive is most likely wedged against the flex plate or ring gear.

    The obvious thing to do is loosen the two bolts, giggle the starter and the Bendix will pop back in place, assuming nothing is bent or bound up. I'm still convinced all you need is a shim or two, which is a common issue with gen 1 small blocks, particularly with remanufactured starters.

    I disagree in that you'd "feel" something was wrong on bolt up. I've installed dozens of gen 1 small block starters at it's always a crap shoot as to if you'll need shims or not. It all depends on the nose and how much wear it has.

    Leave the plugs out, when you remove the starter, then spin the engine by hand, which can be done with a socket on the crank bolt, easily with the plugs out. If the engine spins, it was the starter binding. If not, you have bigger issues to deal with. Next test the starter to insure it works easily and freely, using jumper cables and a battery. Clamp the starter down as it'll jump quite bit.

    Is this the diagonal or straight across bolt pattern starter? Does it have a brace on the forward end, usually on the ground lug?

    For what it's worth, starters are really easy to R&R, so if this has you stumped, maybe it's best to call someone with small black experience.
     
  10. Frosty

    Frosty Previous Member

    No--if you turn the alternator nut and put pressure on the belt it bites and turns the engine ,--its my job.

    All parts should be offered up before bolting in place. the bolts just hold it there.

    If its offering resistence you stop tightening , this is A1 mechanics school.
     
  11. troy2000
    Joined: Nov 2009
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    troy2000 Senior Member

    A lot of Chevy engines used to need shims to get the starter clearances right, and they still might.

    edit: I just googled this; it's a quick how-to you might find helpful: http://www.ehow.com/how_5904862_shim-starter-chevrolet.html

    edit.2: you may also have installed a 168-tooth starter (generally used on big-block Chevies), instead of one with 153 teeth.
     
  12. CDK
    Joined: Aug 2007
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    CDK retired engineer

    That's the sound of a starter solenoid faced with a massive short circuit because the rotor cannot turn.
     
  13. mikealston2428
    Joined: Jul 2011
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    Location: aussie

    mikealston2428 Senior Member

    Sounds like I need to try to put a shim or two in.

    Will my local auto parts dealer hold these ?

    What thickness are they ?

    Thank,
    Mike
     
  14. Frosty

    Frosty Previous Member

    Why not take the shims off the old one. If it doe'snt have them why not change the starter for the right one like it had in the first place that worked!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     

  15. mikealston2428
    Joined: Jul 2011
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    Location: aussie

    mikealston2428 Senior Member

    They old and replacement are exactly the same 153 tooth.

    Same make and model,ive already made sure of this fact.

    Not sure whats going on:confused:
     
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