cheeky rafiki

Discussion in 'Stability' started by peter radclyffe, May 21, 2014.

  1. DennisRB
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    DennisRB Senior Member

    Just looked at that site which lists blue water boats. Seems that no multihulls are included as they must not be suitable for bluewater. But then, I saw one cat in there. Out of all the multihulls to have crossed oceans, one stands head and shoulders over the rest in terms of bluewater ability! So competent is this design that it sits in a list predominantly heavy full keel cruising monohulls. What is this design? Of course the Gemini 105M!
     
  2. JosephT
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    JosephT Senior Member

    Yes, the Gemini is the only multihull listed. For long distance passages I would still prefer a monohull.
     
  3. DennisRB
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    DennisRB Senior Member

    So what does that tell you about the validity of that website considering even the makers of the gemini do not rate it for bluewater useage? Out of all the multihulls that have crossed oceans they pick only this coastal cruiser model to be safe on the high sea?

    In short, the site is a joke. A popularity contest. The gemini is probably close to the most manufactured non beach cat out there.
     
  4. JosephT
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    JosephT Senior Member

    Dennis, below is what the site touts to be:

    "Bluewaterboats.org, though in its infancy, is a long term project to build a living encyclopedia of offshore sailboats for the sailing community. The articles seen here have been written by the community as well as the editorial team, who tend to concentrate on time tested sailboats with rich histories, but this is not a rule. We invite you to support this project."

    Ref: http://bluewaterboats.org/about/story/

    The site has been around for some time so it's certainly not in its infancy. Beyond this, it's certainly not the authority on proven blue water cruising sailboats, but does have a pretty good index of those with a proven track record. Hats off to the Gemini as it appears to be a pretty solid catamaran. I'm just not partial to multihulls (catamaran, trimaran, etc.) for long passages mainly for structural integrity reasons. For coastal & island cruising though there are many multihulls that are a great choice.

    Have a look at most of the monohulls listed here though. I think you'll find by and large they've got excellent safety records and are true bluewater cruisers.

    If you have a better site please pass it on.
     
  5. DennisRB
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    DennisRB Senior Member

    I don't have a better site that lists bluewater boats. But I wont be using that site as a credible source either given that the only catamaran it lists is not even rated for bluewater use buy its builder. The site appears to work by people voting. The Gemini cat has crossed oceans, but it is not rated to do so. However it is one of the most produced largish cats in the world so enough people are there to vote it in, which is why its on the list.

    The Catalina 30 has also crossed oceans. I know someone who sailed on from CA to Brisbane. There are thousands of these built too. Maybe it should be on the list as well?
     
  6. JosephT
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    JosephT Senior Member

    You're more than welcome to submit per the guidelines. The boats listed are those who have successfully made long passages across oceans. Each boat has it's own pros & cons of course. Most of the time each boat has it's own cruising forum and owners share planning tips & experiences. That's all good stuff to help make safe passages.

    FYI I don't see any Beneteau hulls in the index so that should raise a bit of caution for anyone wanting to consider one for a bluewater passage. Something else you'll notice about the monohulls shown are their keels are built like fortresses. My personal fav is the Valiant 40. One hell of a boat.

    http://bluewaterboats.org/valiant-40/
     
  7. DennisRB
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    DennisRB Senior Member

    The Valiant is no doubt a good blue water boat. But a Catalina 28 and a Gemini? Please.

    Beneteaus probably have more blue water miles than any other brand! Most of the boats listed are antiquated old piles which will struggle to sail to windward and when found for sale will be in a serious state of disrepair.

    The fact that any boat is not in that list means absolutely nothing about its blue water ability.
     
  8. JosephT
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    JosephT Senior Member

    As referenced above "The articles seen here have been written by the community as well as the editorial team, who tend to concentrate on time tested sailboats with rich histories, but this is not a rule."

    Given that, any boat can be written up and submitted. There are plenty of the time tested bluewater hulls for sale on Yachtworld. Why risk a new design when a battle hardened vessel that's been well maintained is your best insurance policy. I'm not in favor of bulb keels myself mainly because they sustain too much damage if you run aground. There's simply not material there to disperse the load.

    Here's a nice Valiant 40. Tough as nails.

    http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1975/Valiant-CUTTER-Rigged-2575475/Anacortes/WA/United-States
     
  9. DennisRB
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    DennisRB Senior Member

    Are you affiliated with that site?

    I sailed a Hunter Legend 40.5 which I still own to Australia from CA and so did someone else I know a few years earlier. This model has a backstay, 3.5" stainless rudder shaft and a keel fin which is made of fiberglass and is part of the hull like most of the designs on the list, so it pretty much cant fall off. It differs in that it does have a lead bulb with keel bolts bolted to the end of the fiberglass keel. Since it serves as weight only in a concentrated bulb there is no leverage on the bolts unlike most bolted on keels so they are unlikely to ever snap off.

    Given my use and others use it is a proven blue water design and I would (and did) chose it over every boat on that list. Will it ever make it on that list? I doubt it as all hunters are deemed to be cheap unseaworthy boats by armchair experts.
     
  10. JosephT
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    JosephT Senior Member

    No affiliation, just found it to be quite a handy resource while researching bluewater boats. I would like to see them separate out the true bluewater boats from the rest.
     
  11. HydroNick
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    HydroNick Nick S

  12. powerabout
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    powerabout Senior Member

    I am still waiting to see how you test and what to inspect after a hard grounding for the typical Bene design.
    If it was rigging most pieces of stainless would have been replaced over time yet the keel bolts that are welded in (to a frame that is cast in) stainless these days are assumed good for ever???
    There was a reason old boats had screwed in bronze studs.

    Just like nobody goes fast in old racing powerboats due to known strength issues in laminates, when do you no longer go out to sea in a yacht?
     
  13. Nick.K
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    Nick.K Senior Member

    The MAIB report goes in to detail about damage and repair to the keel attachment area following grounding but there is no discussion of fatigue issues of the laminate. Multiple groundings will surely result in damage to the hull laminate which will make it less stiff.
    I think it is disappointing that there is so much analysis of the route and weather conditions as contributory factors and so little about age/use related deterioration of the hull structure which has a bearing on so many similar boats and certainly seems to be the cause of the accident, not the decisions/age/experience etc of the skipper.
    Nor in the recommendations are any modifications to prevent complete ballast loss at least long enough to allow a liferaft launch.
     
  14. SukiSolo
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    SukiSolo Senior Member

    One piece of good news from this regrettable tragedy, is that there is now a brand new Hansa (Access) 303 boat donated by the family and friends of Andy Bridge. He was the skipper of the Cheeki Raffiki, and one of the four lost.
    This will give many people a start at experiencing sailing for themselves.
    The boat is based on a small lake in Surrey UK, which was where Andy himself started sailing.

    I would like to express my own personal thanks to all who contributed and helped this happen.
     

  15. HydroNick
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    HydroNick Nick S

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