Changing the rig?

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by doublegrat, Mar 16, 2016.

  1. doublegrat
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    doublegrat New Member

    I have a 14 foot O'day Javelin. My last boat was a ComPac Picnic Cat with the hinged mast. I loved the mast setup and leaving the sail rigged on the boom. I want to do something like that with the Javelin.

    The Javelin mast is not forward like the catboat was so if I hinge it, the mast will extend about 5 feet beyond the transom and won't fit in my garage. I'm trying to avoid adding a gaff setup to keep the sail area the same. I'd like to cut the top of the mast 5 feet, which will reduce the mainsail and add a larger headsail to keep the sf of canvas the same.

    Wondering how this will change the handling of the boat and if so, what can I do to compensate for it?

    Any thoughts?

    TIA,

    John
     
  2. gggGuest
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    gggGuest ...

    You may do better to consider a gunter rig, which is similar to a gaff rig but the second spar is held vertically against the mast, and the sail substantially the same.
    Depending on the construction of the boat creating a satisfactory pivot for the mast may be decidedly non trivial.
    Chopping 5 feet off the mast and trying to cram extra area on the jib is I fear likely to be unsatisfactory.
    To be honest you may be better off trying to find a boat that more closely fits your requirements than trying a radical rig change as described.
     
  3. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    The center of effort of the sails will change dramatically. It will be impossible to balance. With a small light mast like that, it is not much of a job to slide it forward on the boat.
     
  4. gggGuest
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    gggGuest ...

    Just been looking at a couple of drawings and photos of the boat. I really cannot see that you are going to get a remotely satisfactory rig by radical changes like that.

    The chap who runs this page : http://www.odayjavelin.com/ seems to have sourced what he considers to be a satisfactory tabernacle for pivoting the mast. Probably pointless reinventing the wheel: I'd go with that.

    Looking at the drawings, I think the only way you are going to get a halfway satisfactory rig is to create a sliding gunter setup, which as mentioned above is a gaff rig with the gaff aligned with the mast. Various sources to read up on this, but basically you would end up with a rig much the same as the current: indeed you'd need minimal modifications to the sail. I think I'd advocate making it from new-to-you secondhand spars and leaving the original mast unchanged so its easy to swap between one and the other.
     
  5. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    A gunter rig isn't going to help this boat at all. It'll add more rigging, more weight and windage aloft, decrease performance and the mast will still be in roughly the same location.

    In order to get this rig into your garage, the mast has to be unstepped, once it's lowered. No tabernacle or deck step hinge will change this - it's just simple geometry. The mast is too tall and placed too far aft.

    The only way you could lower the mast and keep it on the boat, while you park it in the garage is to convert it to a cat rig, which means tossing the jib and getting a 125 sq. ft. gaff, lug or even the gunter if you like up there, with a modest enough aspect ratio, that you can lower and garage it, while it's on the step or tabernacle.

    If going this route, the Beetle cat rig (or similar) has what is called a 116 sq. ft., but I just built a boat with one and my measurements show it's actually closer to a 122' sail, which gets you close. It'll live on a 14' - 15' mast and with a tabernacle can be lowered and stored as you want. Now, this is a lot of work. You'll need a bulkhead and partners for the new mast location, which will be in the 15" - 18" aft of the stem location, the whole look of the boat will change and I'm not sure if the Javelin has a bluff enough bow, to absorb this weight (mast and rig in the boat's eyes) to trim well, but it's possible.

    Frankly, I'd leave it alone and learn how to carry the mast in chocks on the deck. This assumes you can lower it easily (it's not very heavy) and with a forward and aft crutch or chock, you release the mast from the step and move it forward for transport/storage. Yeah a pain in the butt, compaired to a cat rig, but welcome to small the trailerable, Bermudian sloop world.
     
  6. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    I have used a crutch on the aft side of the cockpit and a support fixed to the trailer. After you lower the mast, take the pin off the bottom and slide the mast forward on the tabernacle. It takes maybe a minute.
     
  7. Jamie Kennedy
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    Jamie Kennedy Senior Member

    The Laser II mast was originally tapered, and then they changed it to one that came apart just above the forestay. That might work. You would have to cut the mast about 6 inches above the hounds, and then add some sort of inner sleeve to the upper section, that would fit into the lower section. So then you could remove the upper section and fold it over onto the lower section for trailering and storing in your garage.
     
  8. doublegrat
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    doublegrat New Member

    Lots of good ideas

    I had thought of the gunter rig but it would kind of put me in the same boat as the gaff, just more stuff to deal with.

    A friend mentioned a mast splice: https://www.dwyermast.com/items.asp?cat1ID=20&cat1Name=Masts&familyID=31&familyName=DM

    which will act something like the Laser II setup described.

    I really don't want to move the mast forward and build supports for it and lose the jib.

    The Javelin has the roll boom type reefing on the main. I think I'm going to try it rolled about 5 feet down. I bought some poly tarp to play with making a larger headsail to see how it sails with the smaller main/genoa.

    The sleeve seems like the least change for the most benefit.

    John
     
  9. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    The Javelin uses an oval extruded mast section, making a slip in prerequisite on finding another DW-275 extrusion section and matching sleeve.

    [​IMG]

    If you decrease the main and increase the area on the jib, you boat's balance will go to hell. You'll likely just end up with a boat that has severe lee helm and can't go to windward.
     
  10. doublegrat
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    doublegrat New Member

    Thanks for the info

    The lee helm is definitely my concern with going to a larger jib.

    A few more questions:

    Would a longer boom (sail) change that? Also, different position of the rudder, forward or back?

    TIA,

    John
     
  11. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Yeah you can play with the appendages, maybe add a keel/skeg, but without some serious understanding of what you're really doing, it'll just be a hunt and peck kind of thing.

    Essentially to ease a lee helm, you'll want more lateral area forward (comparatively). This is a much more difficult proposition to address than the opposite (weather helm), as the boat can take some additional area aft, without a lot of handling issues, but forward presents different set of problems.

    I think you're going about this all wrong. The basic problem is lowering the stick and practical transport/storage. You don't need to change the rig and appendages to do this. A well thought out tabernacle will accomplish it and yes, you'll have to unpin the stick and move it forward for transport/storage, but a reasonable thing to consider, compaired to tackling new appendages and a new rig, that may not perform very well after it's all said and done.
     
  12. Jamie Kennedy
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    Jamie Kennedy Senior Member

    He also wants to keep the sail on the boom. Should be possible with a quick release at the gooseneck.
     
  13. gggGuest
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    gggGuest ...

    If you put a bigger jib on the Javelin then all the area will go on behind the mast, with little affect on balance, but also the least benefit per unit area. In any case balance on dinghies is absurdly over thought on this forum. As long as its distributed somewhere in between rudder and centreboard the boat will balance OK.

    But I think radical sail changes are way off for this project.

    A two piece mast is worth considering. Its more hassle off the water than the sliding gunter, but less hassle on the water.

    However I really wouldn't chop up a currently good mast in order to do it, I'd get a "new" stick. If you can find a second hand mast off something like a Laser 2 that already has a joint that would be perfect, just cut to length, starting with the current hounds position. If you can't then what you want to find is a true pole mast - one that has a separate rivet on external track - which is about the same size and weight as your current mast.

    Then source some mast tube which is the same external diameter as your mast internal diameter and the same thickness or even better slightly thicker. This is going to be a sleeve and your joint. cut the mast either just above the hounds or about 6 inches below where the taper starts (whichever is lower) and construct a joint with your sleeve. Make sure there's some kind of tenon so the joint cannot rotate. The you need to smooth off and generally make sure nothing can catch at the break in your track.
     

  14. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    The sail will always stay on the boom. The boltrope on the foot will take care of that. The gooseneck is attached to the mast on the same slot as the sail. To remove the boom you simply slide it up a couple of inches to the gate and pull it out.
     
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