Cedar strip canoe + rottweiler?

Hi folks.

I've been here awhile lusting after small sailboats but as yet haven't built anything. Been away for awhile, situation changed and now I have a fiancee and a rottweiler and a different preference.

So for years now I've been looking at an International Swift Solo and really liking it. Not so much because I have delusions of being able to sail it, as much as liking that sort of construction -- A beautiful, visible cedar core sandwich, but I don't need the carbon I think.

I'm thinking of trying my hand at a longer (18+ ft) cedar strip canoe, only I'm a bit worried about what rottweiler claws will do to it. I would also prefer to avoid ribs if the sandwich construction can be strong enough.

This will be mostly river floats, possibly some shallow water, and canoe camping.

Anybody have any input regarding claws or even a particular set of plans?

Thanks.

 

go buy a used aluminum canoe and try it out. The rot might not like being in a canoe, if so you might want to build something else.

A strip built hull will hold up fine if you just cover the bottom with some heavy foam backed synthetic fabric or some kind of traction tape like they use on stairs, apply it to protect the bottom where the dog will be, possibly wrap the gunwales as well.

IT would be a shame to go to the trouble of hand building a pretty boat to have a dog chew it up, so might be better to buy a used knockabout and not worry about the pretty finish. It is cheaper than building it yourself anyway.

 

Thanks for the advice. The cheap aluminum is already in the works. I'm just exploring the possibility of a wood boat that looks good enough to store it in the living room. No, I'm not planning to store it in the living room.

I'm seriously hoping there's an alternative to covering the wood with something opaque. That would ruin it for me. I'm after a stop-and-stare wood grain inside and out.

My fiancee is from Colombia, and has never gone camping or canoeing until I met her. She really likes camping even when it's not a storybook situation. We rented a canoe last weekend and even though it stormed we set up on the sand bar and it was a good experience for everybody but the dog. He was a little uncertain about the canoe, but I think he'll like it once he gets the hang of it. I tell everyone he's 50% rottweiler and 50% chicken.

My fiancee was already talking about 'next time' when we were packing the car for the trip home.

I need to come up with a cold weather camping solution for the dog. It got cold, and he wound up under my sleeping bag. He's absolutely crazy about water and about cars, which is why I think he'll get the hang of the canoe. We camped on a sand bar and he spent quite awhile in not-so-guided missile mode while we threw sticks for him. But with wet fur and a clear cold night, he was shivering enough to make me worry.

I've been camping since I was a kid. In my 20's I got into 4-season backpacking, and frankly a lot of my gear is the same exact piece I bought 25 years ago and it holds up rather well in spite of some fairly heavy use. It's got some patches, but still perfectly functional. I've outfitted my fiancee similarly, but not the dog.

I also spent a year on a canoe resort when I was in my early 20's, and spent a very large part of every week alone in a canoe with a chain saw and a crowbar clearing the river. Somehow that never clicked in my mind as "boating" but I can't tell you guys how much I liked it then, or how much we both liked the brief time in the canoe last weekend.

Over the years, for some reason I never got a canoe. It never occurred to me. Maybe I was too focused on engines and speed?

I'm thinking the cheap canoe is a certainty, and still I dream of a beautiful boat.

Thanks.

 

I have a Rottweiler, among my 5 dogs and he loves the water. In fact, I can't keep him out of it. We even bought one of those cheap 5' kiddy pools for him.

Dogs will do what you ask, even if a bit unsure, they'll adjust, usually fairly quickly. Dogs on boats initially are skittish, but this is normal. Once they realize nothing bad will happen, they'll just want to be with their human. Put him in the canoe while it's in a place he's familiar with, like the back yard. Put him is and climb in with him. Introduce some water in a bucket and splash him occasionally, making a game of it. He'll get the idea. Placing a doggy bed he's familiar with, in the spot you want him to stay, also can help quite a bit.

As to coatings on the inside of a stripper, I'd recommend truck bed liner. You can roll this stuff on and it'll stick really well. It's tough and will provide good under wet foot traction too.

 

How about this as an interim step: get the cheap canoe, than build some nice wood seats, and floor boards for where the humans sit. Perhaps some vanished wood rub rails/gunwale trim, wood fore deck, etc. IOW, dress up the ugly boat, practice your wood working skills, and make it generally something nice to own and use. Once the "puppy" gets out of the rot after it is about 3 years old (having owned many large dogs, that has been my experience...much more manageable after they are a bit older), than you can take the time to plan better what you like in a boat/canoe and than build something that will suit your needs better. you might also consider a jon boat with oars, or even catamaran made from two kayaks lashed to a deck.

Dogs are lots of fun to take outdoors, usually large breeds handle the cold well but you will still want to make a foam and fleece line portable bed for them, and a fleece blanket is also nice. they learn real quick to not move around and stay under it to keep warm. With their own bed camping with large dogs is a lot nices, just make sure your tent is large enough to accommodate everyone (train him to shake off before you let him in the tent!).

 

I think that you could do 10 oz. cloth inside the canoe and still have the feel and look of natural would. 10 oz, will wet out and give you the woodgrain you want. It may not be as crisp as a 6 oz., but it will still look nice. You will pay a weight penalty for that though. If you have assigned seating you could layer the dog seating area. Otherwise, maybe just a mat for the beasty. Maintaining you varnish layer will be most of your problem as it is the front runner in your protection scheme and protects the epoxy from UV. A better option though it may not synonomous with your "stop-and-stare wood grain inside and out" plan would be a two part paint system for the bilge of your craft. I think a nicely planned out bilge coat will give you the best of all worlds: bright wood inside and out with a tough and durable coating where it is needed.

 

Strip should be ok for your application and the payloads you would expect in a kayak or canoe. Glass up to a certain weight is basically a pretty translucent material but with those low weights it would be more of a sheathing than add much strength although sandwiching the core between two even quite light glass skins with a strip plank core can give quite useful gains in strength. The longitudinal strength of the strip plank will be fine but with larger more voluminous craft you can start to have some crossgrain strength issues with strip plank without reinforcement. The problem I see is the more engineered cloths rather than the woven styles use stitching to control the fibre bundle orientation and that will certainly show through a clear finish. One interesting approach I recall seeing was a strip plank interior with a double diagonal core and then a strip plank exterior it must have been very labour intensive but it was a very beautifully executed all timber build.

 

@PAR,
Glad to see you still around. Yes my dog has just blown through his third 5' pool this year.

His skittishness was the same sort of thing he showed every other time he saw something new. I have no doubt he'll adapt and learn to love it. You're absolutely right, he just wants to be with his humans.

@Petros,
Bronco is a pound puppy, so I have no idea how old he is. I know he's at least 4 years old. He acts like a puppy but I think some of that is that he was rescued from an unpleasant situation.

I'm not sure I dig the idea of beautifying an old beat up aluminum canoe. Don't polish a turd if you can help it. I think your idea of a portable dog bed is worth some extra consideration though.

@LP,
I wonder about 4-oz glass on the floor, then the 6-oz over the top covering everything?

Thinking, maybe a mat might be a really good option. If I can take a thin pad of some sort that's soft and durable, he can see that as "his" spot and always go there.

 

You could also make a sacrificial dog "seat" out of varnished wood you take out of the bottom and refinish/replace when needed. Protects the pretty floor, and will not be needed if the dog does not come along on some trips.

 

I had a Lab/Golden Retriever mix when I built my first flat bottomed canoe and put sails on it... Although she loved water so much that she would pound thru ice to wallow in water when we hiked in the mountains, the canoe horrified her. I blew an afternoon trying to acclimatize her to it at Lake Perris before taking off for a week sailing and camping on Lake Mojave, and she shivered and shook every time I stuffed her aboard.

I finally decided she'd just have to suffer. Sure enough, when I launched I had to carry her aboard, and she whined and hunched and tucked her tail, and generally acted like she was being beaten. But when we came ashore somewhere else than where we started (unlike the day I tried to get her used to it), I saw the light bulb come on above her head: "it's a GO thing, like his pickup!!! It TAKES us places!!!"

For the rest of the week, when I got ready to go she'd beat me into the boat, and stand there eagerly in the bow waiting to see where we were going to wind up this time....

 

Make some doggy boots for the dog and throw the girlfriends high heeled shoes away or make her walk !!
I used to lay hardwood flooring a while back and dogs claws are a real problem specially at the bottom of stairs where they slide round the corner . no polyurethane could cope with it at all !!! But boots for dogs may sound silly but they work :idea:

http://canineconcepts.co.uk/en/23-dog-boots this is uk

http://www.alldogboots.com/Waterproof-Dog-Rain-Boots-s/52.htm closer to home for you !!Rain boots !!!

http://www.ultrapaws.com/Ultra-Paws-Durable-Dog-Boots/productinfo/303D/ even better !!!

Sorry could find over boots for highheeled shoes so your girfriend has to go bare feet !!

 

You've been away for too long Ken, welcome back.

6 ounce cloth is just barely visible under varnish, lighter weights are transparent. Heavier weights progressively less so. 10 ounce cloth is plainly visible. 10 ounce cloth will offer some abrasion protection, but it wouldn't take dog claws long to dig into the fabric.

Truck bed liner is a polyurethane and will remain stuck and can easily tolerate dog claws. No it's not clear, but you can hit it with a pressure washer to clean it, which isn't a wise choice with varnish over 'glass. I think "Duplicolor" has a bed liner mixed with Kevlar chunks, which should be especially tough.

Any competent vet can guess your dogs age by looking at it's teeth. When they're young, several things will be obvious to them and it's not a tough call, usually within less then a year of actual birth.

I too go through those damn plastic pools, usually 3 or 4 a summer. We have a pit bull/mastiff pup that has him occupied most of the time now, so maybe I'll get through the year with just a couple.

 

@Petros,

I like the sacrificial dog seat idea. I'm pretty sure I could train him to use just that.

@troy2000,

I'm positive Bronco will be just like that. He LOVES going places with me. Even long trips. He LOVES the water, and the beach, and mud, and ....

@tunnels,

Martha is all about common sense. She puts on heels sometimes when we're going somewhere fancy, but generally wears flat comfortable shoes. And she doesn't mind barefoot. We both have water shoes.

Doggy boots Will Not Fly. I've tried to get him to wear boots for winter time, but he Does Not Like Them.

@PAR,

I have experience to a point with glass, but not for canoes and not caring at all if I could see under it.

Do you know if a 4-oz layer under a 6-oz layer would be more transparent than a 10-oz layer? I would think several thin layers would be stronger and more durable than a single thick layer, but I don't know about transparency.

I had anticipated using epoxy (West System is my favorite) with some UV inhibitors.

I'd rather have some sort of sacrificial floor where he goes than a permanent travesty like bed liner. I know the stuff is tough, it's just not what I have pictured in my head.

In fact, maybe I could implement the doggy bed idea in such a way that it fits directly in the boat or pops out and acts like a cot on the beach? A wood or aluminum frame, some legs that hook over the cross bars and/or gunwales and maybe even a cover for when he's cold?

 

Multiple layers is stronger, but in the thicknesses you're describing, a moot point. Transparency slowly goes away, starting at 4 ounce cloth, which is transparent for most purposes. Two layers of light fabric will be slightly less translucent than a single layer of cloth of the same weight. Simply put, a couple of layers of 2 ounce cloth will be slight visible, while a single layer of 4 ounce will not be.

If interested in strength, with a light sheathing, biax fabric not cloth, is the way to go. Unfortunately, it's quite visible even in the lightest weights (6 ounce). These types of fabrics are filled and painted, not finished bright.

Rotties are great dogs, stoic, a bit aloof because they were bred as drovers, but loyal to a fault, protective, playful and they love water. They love to run too. I wouldn't try to make special accommodations for your dog. They're famous for just finding a way to be comfortable, in spite of your best efforts. In short, if you're there, he'll want to be there too and will find a way to get comfy. The only reason I mentioned a doggie bed is so he'd have a familiar smell to relate the boat with. A recently worn pair of your socks or your underwear will serve the same purpose and he'll likely happily lay on these, knowing what they are. My Rottie eat quite few pairs as a puppy, the little prick.