Carvel & Oakum for a James River Batteau

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by SedaliaEndeavor, Mar 31, 2009.

  1. Lt. Holden
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    Lt. Holden Senior Member

    Boston, the can with the schooner on it, was it Pettit?
     
  2. peter radclyffe
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    peter radclyffe Senior Member

    Is that planer like a versaplaner, we never had such luxuries in england, i heard these spiral cutter block planers are the best
     
  3. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    carbide spiral bit
    bullet proof and went through anything clean
    bit cost a fortune but worked like no ones business
    was not a block planer though
    it was a fenced door planer
    had adjustable depth adjustable table and adjustable fence
    bloody thing was adjustable
    you could do just about anything with it and it had a 11/4 throat
    no plank to large

    porter cable made it and Im not sure you can still get em
    was perfect for the job

    pettit wrings a bell
    it was in old English under the schooner logo and kinda hard to read
    can weighed a ton and full you could hardly lift it
    used to drag it around on a dolly
    also used a hawk and trowel to apply the stuff
    stank to high hell when you opened the can but dissipated in no time
    might have been Pettit but not sure
    kinda smelled like foot odor or plumbers putty
     
  4. peter radclyffe
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    peter radclyffe Senior Member

    can you please explain the term, 11/4 ,we dont use this
     
  5. Landlubber
    Joined: Jun 2007
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    Landlubber Senior Member

    One and one quarter inch....
     
  6. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    no
    hardwood is measured in quarter inch increments
    so 11/4 = 2 3/4 inches
    its probably a uniquely American system
    sorry I should have been more specific

    the mills round here cut 4/4 , 8/4 ,12/4 and so on
    Ild kill to have the hole thing converted to metric but that's not likely to happen any time soon
     
  7. SedaliaEndeavor
    Joined: Mar 2009
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    Location: Forest, VA

    SedaliaEndeavor Junior Member

    Okay, I get the router trick. That makes tons of sense. Thanks and I will give it a try. Tapering the seams is just plain smart. Some of the river guys scab on a strip every inside seam to pack the oakum into for sort of the same purpose but not half as slick. The router sounds like an easy way.

    White Oak definitely swells some, I don't know how much compared to others. Some buddies of ours recently burned a retired boat, and the cut nails left in the ash were bent like hairpins right in the middle from the amount of flex the boat went through swelling and shrinking wet to dry. (Most people take their boat out for the winter, so it flexes a lot when it dries) Another crew built a boat completely slam tight no seam, and the boards swelled enough to cup right up off the frame and ruined it.

    Peter, thanks for the clarification on the cotton vs. oakum, I'd have guessed it must be something like that. The whole length of these boats take a serious beating. Most of them draft no more than 6", and in low water years sometimes that's even too much. When the boat is pretty dry it drafts less than a canoe, but we end up dragging it over plenty of rock ledges and inevitably knock and drag some oakum out. I think the putty would be a real hindrance to repairs. I guess that's not really a problem you'd generally run into in the ocean.


    There is no way we'd build this thing upside down. We just have a boat flipping party when the time comes and get her right-side up again, so I'm with you on that. The boat is about 47' long.


    Thanks for all the help and answers. This trip is the most fun I have all year long. Its my favorite vacation.
     
  8. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    I think you meant right side up
    but no worries and 47' is peanuts
    Ive seen some dam huge boats built upside down and rolled

    as for white oak
    I never left the stuff untreated so just goes to prove we all have things to learn
    now I know why we at least always hit it with mast and spar varnish
    or oiled the crap out of it

    and ya the router trick is the bomb
    will cut your time in half once you get used to it
    in the end it takes longer to clamp the guide in place than it does to actually cut the wood
    and building upside down means the dust and there is tons of it
    stays out of your face and eyes and throat and beer
    makes for better moral on the job

    oh
    if my old grand dad Roby ever caught me scabbing on a strip in hull planking
    it would have taken an act of God himself to save my *** from the tanning I was about to receive
    and if my old man came along wondering what all the noise was about and heard what I had done
    he would have taken over for old Roby if he felt he was being slack on me

    things were different back then
    you learned faster or you ran faster


    best
    B
     
  9. Landlubber
    Joined: Jun 2007
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    Landlubber Senior Member

    Boston, your Imperial measurements are a nightmare.....metric umits are soooo much easier. Such is life.
     
  10. SedaliaEndeavor
    Joined: Mar 2009
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    Location: Forest, VA

    SedaliaEndeavor Junior Member

    B - better to take your punishment than run. Its always twice as bad if you dodge it 'til later :) None of us want the strips on the boat it just looks bad to me, but the ones that have it have them all covered up with walkboards and such so you can't tell.

    And yeah, I meant right side up. It doesn't take very many people to flip the boat, and we have always had way more than we needed. People say they come to work, but they really come for the party and to check out the boat. Its always been much easier than we've anticipated.

    By the way, is there any high tech epoxy or putty solution to a knot in your planking below water level? For this boat we ordered full length lumber, and there aren't very many knots, but unfortunately I can't say there aren't any.

    I've got one I'm a little concerned about, all the rest are just tiny. I'd hate to make another trip for one board, and I really don't want to cut it if not absolutely necessary, but it might be. I know it woudn't be historically accurate, but its tough to educate the public about batteaux history from the bottom of the river. And I'm definitely not poling 2 tons of water 120 miles. Whatever it is would probably have to stick to wet wood, which sure seems like a stretch to me but modern chemistry has some pretty amazing stuff. Any ideas?
     
  11. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    well there's sound knots and there is unsound knots
    if its not sound its got no business in the planking
    cut it out and scarf the plank
    no two ways about it unless you want a two or three inch hole to deal with

    if you have ever seen a knot spring its kinda like a
    spring
    or maybe a fountain
    at least till your hull gets low enough in the water
    then its more like a big mistake that sunk your boat

    cut out any questionable knots
    if your not sure
    cut it out
    its not worth the embarrassment
    B
     
  12. peter radclyffe
    Joined: Mar 2009
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    peter radclyffe Senior Member

    If the knot is sound you can bore a pilot hole, & lightly drive a copper nail or brass pin, diagonally across it, there is epoxy resin, the eighth wonder of the wooden boat world , I would not router the seams, because the seams will only ever get bigger, you can start with the boards touching, cramped hard together, with a 1/8th seam outside, if your boards are cupping, consider copper rivets or increasing the moulding of your frames
     

  13. peter radclyffe
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    peter radclyffe Senior Member

    On a slab sided thames barge, the planks are rebated half thickness, it gives a backing to the caulking, like a seam batten, if your hull is not slab sided if it is compound curved its much harder for a plank to cup, you could put a line of cotton caulking on the vertical part of the rebate before you put the next plank, but i'm awrwe you have traditional parameters, no need to complicate things
     
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