Cartopable Sailer that sleeps 2?

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by MoeJoe, May 4, 2012.

  1. MoeJoe
    Joined: Apr 2012
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    Location: Stockholm, Sweden

    MoeJoe Junior Member

    Hi all,

    A cartopable little sailboat that can accommodate 2 persons in "tent-level comfort", does it exist? Or would I need to build it myself?

    Would be used for some day-sailing & mainly weekend/holiday outings in the Stockholm Archipelago.. In fairly shallow and sheltered waters. Means that hull needs to be very light, sub-80 kilograms. Something like a Westwing Potter 15 but much lighter. More like an Enigma microcruiser?

    Possibly absurd but that's what I'm looking for.

    Alternatively, I could convert a used sailing dinghy perhaps.. I'm half-decent working with wood at least, and I guess I could learn what I need to know.

    Background: I've sailed dinghies in my early years. Last 20 years, sea-kayaks have been my mode of transportation, with camping gear & tent.. But would be nice to get into sailing again, compact living/lightweight style. Easier to bring a friend/sibling that isn't into paddling out to these beautiful areas. And motorboats is not for me. I enjoy nature in silence.

    Finding a harbor spot at a suitable location is difficult in Stockholm area (I'm currently on queue position 673 in one harbor.. Will probably join a few more queues but could still take years without some luck) and I'd be happy to avoid the hassle of being in a club, paying fees, etc.

    I have a car without hitch, and nowhere to lock a trailer. A tiny, lightweight sub 17 foot boat could probably be sorted with friends or family, in the corner of a garage.

    Of course, I could sell my apartment, buy a house with garage, buy a bigger car with a hitch and get a regular trailer-sailer, but then this project becomes fairly big and expensive.. I'm looking at spending less than $5000-$6000 if feasible.

    Thankful for tips and advice or that you talk some sense into me :)
     
  2. Stumble
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    Stumble Senior Member

    Check into joining the Royal Swedish Yacht Club. Annual dues are around 750 sek a year ($75 I think), and the club has some dry storage for boats. They may also have a discount or priority on marina berths (we do).

    As for boat recommendations, there are just too many. Small lightweight boats make up a huge market, and have for years. Everything from racers to cruisers, to day sailors, and it all depends on what you consider acceptable accommodations. I know people who camp in From Hobie 16 catamarans for a week at a time, all the way up to people who don't consider anything without air conditioning to be acceptable.
     
  3. Richard Woods
    Joined: Jun 2006
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    Richard Woods Woods Designs

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  4. MoeJoe
    Joined: Apr 2012
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    Location: Stockholm, Sweden

    MoeJoe Junior Member

    Thanks for input so far. I'm not very optimistic to find exactly what I'm looking for, most/all single hull microcruisers seems a bit on the heavy side.

    Backup plan is something like a Klepper Aerius II with S2 sailrig or a Grabner HappyCat, but then it's a wet ride and tent camping still.
     
  5. LP
    Joined: Jul 2005
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    LP Flying Boatman

  6. lewisboats
    Joined: Oct 2002
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    lewisboats Obsessed Member

    I would check into Skin On Frame... You can get the size you need for two and still maintain the weight. You would need to have an open boat with a boom tent rather than a cabin boat though.
     
  7. Petros
    Joined: Oct 2007
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    Petros Senior Member

    Interesting you should ask...I have done a number of sketches of a folding skin-on-frame littel sailboat with just such an idea in mind. Even built a model of the folding frame.

    I have built 16 small boats, including folding kayaks, and skin-on-frame sailboats.

    It would be 16 ft long with a simple cat rig single sail (perhaps lug rig, simple and boomless). about 7 foot beam. and it would assemble like a klepper folding kayak, just wider.

    It would fit into three large duffles, or perhaps three water tight trunks, that also become storage compartments in the assembled boat. total weight would be under 200 lbs.

    The boat would include a small cabin that is large enough to sleep two with a small area to stand up (at the companion way). It would be like a tough tent with two vinyl windows, the cabin fabric would the same tough fabric as the hull.

    Something like this could be stored in a small place, and could either be assembled on a beach, loaded up and launched. Or it can be assembled and placed on the roof of the car and driven to the launch point.

    Do I have a first customer?

    I was going to make one and take it some local wood boat gatherings, and set it up while I am there, just for the fun of it. Not sure if it would be practical because of the size, but the idea of having a small day sailor/micro cruiser that you can keep in a closet should have a market.

    I do not want to make these for sale (I do not want to set and run a manufacturing buisness, too much trouble), but a set of detailed plans might be a good place to start. But I have to build the first one to know if it is even a viable idea. Seems it should work since it is no longer than a typical folding kayak, but it would be a lot heavier.

    Might find an existing small boat builder to make them if we can sell more than a few. I can not imagine they would be that cheap to make unless we have done in the orient.
     
  8. MoeJoe
    Joined: Apr 2012
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    Location: Stockholm, Sweden

    MoeJoe Junior Member

    Hi Petros,

    Wow, that sounds really cool! I've owned and paddled folding and inflatable kayaks for 10 years now, so I wouldn't be concerned with up to 1 hour of assembly. Klepper's are nice, tried the Aerius II last Saturday.

    A single rig sail would fit my purpose just fine, as long as the boat could go up-wind with decent performance. And I'd want ability reef the sail when needed.

    Would it be possible to fit oars on your boat? Nice to be able to move about when no wind/in harbours, without an engine.

    I've looked at these old Klepper sailing dinghies, shame they stopped making them.. Didn't come with a a bed & roof though, a bit too small for me but still cool.
    Klepper Master: http://www.faltbootbasteln.de/fbb-klepper-master.html
    Klepper Passat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4rPHrozoG4

    I might well be interested in becoming your test pilot customer, if the price is right and shipping to Sweden could be sorted.

    If you'd be willing to share some sketches via PM or in this tread, I'd be greatful.
     
  9. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Most car top boats could have a boom tent arranged, so it's more of owner inventiveness than a design consideration. I agree that a cat boat would be well suited for this type of thing, particularly a gaffer, as the long boom makes a bigger tent. A leg 'o mutton proportioned Bermudian, could offer nearly as much boom as well.
     
  10. Petros
    Joined: Oct 2007
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    Petros Senior Member

    I was not planning on building any to sell, but after I build the first one, and work out the bugs in the assembly details, I will be happy to sell you plans so you can build your own. lots cheaper than sending you a boat!

    I will see if any of my sketches are worth posting.
     
  11. MoeJoe
    Joined: Apr 2012
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    Location: Stockholm, Sweden

    MoeJoe Junior Member

    Ok thanks Petros, still sounds interesting to me.

    -Taking my original question a bit to the theoretical level;

    If my "dream boat" was built in carbon/aramid fiber, hull, mast, everything, using inflatable bags (or possibly external sponsoons along the rim, RIB-style) to be unsinkable, surely a sub-75 kilo weight would be achievable? I mean, sea-kayaks in carbon/aramid fiber can weight around 15 kilos, take that times 4 and you have a lot of material and still only 60 kilos.. Would be very, very expensive though..

    E.g http://www-personal.umich.edu/~janhande/dinghy/next.htm , a scaled-up version of that..
     
  12. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    Location: Eustis, FL

    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    If you scale up the 15 kilo boat 4x the weight would rise by a factor of 16 not 4. A 2x scaling is still a factor of 8. Doesn't physics suck.
     
  13. Squidly-Diddly
    Joined: Sep 2007
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    Location: SF bay

    Squidly-Diddly Senior Member

    how big a car we talking? American or foreign size?

    When you say "top-able".....how much do you weigh and how many pulls up can you do?

    Will you have help? Do to geometry I've found two people can car-top well over what a single person alone can do.

    But if you have a station wagon ("Estate" in UK) with a Thule bar mounted at very rear (you can get pillars installed anywhere on roof with drill in pad kit) and you have clip on wheels at the transom one strong or two weak people should be able to cartop a fairly large boat, if the gunnels will slide on the bar no problem.
    [​IMG]Boat Dolly






    These inflatable kayaks make really good beds, on or off the water! For two people consider one of their inflatable "fish hunter" 6 man rafts.

    http://www.sevylor.com/Tahiti-Classic-Kayak-P1813C41.aspx
     
  14. CutOnce

    CutOnce Previous Member

    Here are a couple boats that may meet the original poster's criteria:

    PD/Ocean Explorer Cruising adaptation of the PD Racer.

    and better yet:
    Ooze Goose (12 foot version of above) This is a cruising version of the PD Goose design.

    Both of these boats are a Scandinavian take on micro cruising. Given the actual on-the-water performance of PD racers on RAID-type adventures of more than 100 miles (160 kilometers), they may be more suitable than first glance.

    The Goose is certainly big enough for two on the water. Sleeping two (if they are friendly). Car-toppable with some thinking. Could be stored upright leaning against a wall. Could fit in a one meter wide, 2.5 meter high by three meter long space beside a garage or house.

    Going this small means you have to be choosy about weather, waves and time - but it is a nice way to go.

    --
    CutOnce
     

  15. MoeJoe
    Joined: Apr 2012
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    Location: Stockholm, Sweden

    MoeJoe Junior Member

    This is definately in the right ball-park! Wouldn't mind adding 2-3 foot at the front to get a "normal" bow rather than this flat one, just for looks, and perhaps I'd prefer a single mast with roll-furl, but I suppose that would be up to me if I'd buy the plans.

    Only major problem is that my lady was very sceptical when she saw it, I might not be able to convince her of it's "functional beauty" :D
     
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