Carter 33

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by jarndyce, Jan 4, 2014.

  1. jarndyce
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    jarndyce New Member

    Hi,

    I've been researching the Carter 33 on the internet and I've not found much about the boat's performance. I found a review that said the boat would do about 5.5 knots on a broad reach in a Force 4 or 5. This struck me as very poor, surely any boat should be up to about hull speed in those conditions?

    I am looking at a couple of these boats and am very interested in them, but the alternative is a Twister 28. Does anyone have any views on the comparative performance of these two please? I want to use the boat for coastal sailing and some offshore trips, e.g across Biscay or the AZAB race. I had a very bad experience in Biscay before in a Rival 34 which hardly moved in the light winds I found there, and am particularly keen on at least fair light wind performance.

    Lastly, regarding the Carter, I have read that there were two mast heights - but does anyone know what these were please?

    Thanks,

    Jarndyce
     
  2. pogo
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    pogo ingenious dilletante

  3. alan white
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    alan white Senior Member

    Steven Callahan, author of the book, "Adrift", sold his Carter 33 to me a few years back. He claimed 160 mile days offshore. The boat won the Around Denmark Race in the early seventies. It's a fast boat on all points. Good design pedigree and awsome construction. At least from the Olympic yard, which built the series that had a more traditional deck.
    You might reach Steve at Cruising World magazine, assuming he is still there.
     
  4. jarndyce
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    jarndyce New Member

    Alan and Pogo,

    Thanks, these messages are both really useful - I thought they were meant to be fast - that's why the article I read surprised me.

    Any more information or views from owners would be very welcome.

    Jarndyce
     
  5. CT 249
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    CT 249 Senior Member

    There are a couple of very different Carter 33s, though. I think one was a development of the half tonner "Crocodile" of around 1970; a huge boat for a half and therefore originally under-rigged. The later versions of this 33 may have been fitted with a bigger rig. I think these 33s were built in Greece by Olympic.

    The later Carter 33s were built in various places from about '75 to a 3/4 ton design, and as higher-rating and newer boats were therefore quicker. These 33s seem to be sometimes called the Carter 3/4 Ton. I think there was a further variation called the Ragtime in the UK which looked like extended version of the later 33s, and a bit quicker still. On top of all that, there was a widened stern extension that was fitted to at least one 33 (or was it a Ragtime?) which was going to be marketed as an add-on to other Carters.

    The later 33s, 3/4s and Ragtimes had wedge-shaped coachroofs, I think, whereas the original 33 had a conventional square-ish one.

    I'm not 100% on all this but I do know that there seems to be several confusing types.
     
  6. keith66
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    keith66 Senior Member

    A member of our club did the ARC last year in one & she performed well.
     
  7. aleealot
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    aleealot New Member

    A little bit about Carter: I recently purchased a Carter 33, and with it came some interesting materials including a copy of the March 1989 Sailing magazine with an article on Dick Carter written by Robert H. Perry "My Days with Dick Carter". It also came with a complete set of the original design drawings. Carter is probably most remembered for being the first to introduce the fin keel and spade rudder into the then world of full keel boats, other neat firsts were internal halyards which at the time was considered risky. He focused on the IOR in its earliest days, and was a pioneer in bringing the IOR to the USA. The 33 was his highest volume boat and it was built originally in Greece.
     
  8. CT 249
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    CT 249 Senior Member

    Carter was a great designer, but he didn't bring the fin into the offshore racing world. Van de Stadt's Zeevalk had a fin and skeg (and very light displacement) in the '50s, his Stormvogel took the fin and skeg concept all the way to the maxi size in the early '60s, and he had a very successful production offshore racer in the '50s with Pionier.

    Other boats like Mouse of Malham and Hoots Mon were racing offshore with light hulls (even by today's standards) and fins in the '50s. The famous ULDB Ragtime was also a pre-Carter fin and skeg boat. Carter's boats were nice but much MORE conservative.
     
  9. Gary Baigent
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    Gary Baigent Senior Member

    Couldn't resist: Nat Herrreshoff had fin and separate rudder in the 1890's - as did Arch Logan here with Sunbeam - all before 20th C.
     
  10. aleealot
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    aleealot New Member

    Wow, what a great (active) forum. Maybe I was misunderstood, as my point was more to Carter's influence on modern boat building, and the famous designers of our time. Thanks for the additional information on the other designers, in future I'll temper my "Carter-talk" a bit.
     
  11. aleealot
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    aleealot New Member

    Now that I have your attention; would like to add a dodger this summer.. do any Carter owner's have the patterns for a dodger? I'd like to have one sewn overseas, (China).
     
  12. CT 249
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    CT 249 Senior Member

    Add Nicholson, W.P. Stephens, Linton Hope and many others to that list - but it remains a list of INSHORE racing boats, whereas Aleelot specifically referred to the introduction of the fin and skeg to OFFSHORE racing boats.
     
  13. CT 249
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    CT 249 Senior Member

    Cheers.

    Dick was definitely influential. Part of that may have been because he may have lead the way to making fin and skeg boats that were widely competitive on rating, across a full range of conditions. Most earlier fin keelers had only been competitive on rating over a narrower range of conditions.
     
  14. Tanton
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    Tanton Senior Member


  15. aleealot
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    aleealot New Member

    Tanton: It is really an honor to be in communication with you, (Tanton is the famous designer Yves-Marie Tanton who along with Robert Perry brought Carter Offshore some of the nicest designs ever built, (and certainly ahead of their time). Mr Tanton, the previous owner purchased the drawing set from you, and I have been studying them, (trying to decide how best to incorporate a radome off the stern).
    By the way, I have been a fan of your stay-less mast/carbon fiber design 43 cat-ketch, must be a dream to sail, (had a Freedom 30 which was their compromise to a sloop).
     
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