Carolina flare build and materials

Discussion in 'Boatbuilding' started by lenm, Dec 11, 2014.

  1. WindRaf
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    WindRaf Senior Member

  2. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    You win, I don't have a clue what I'm talking about and clearly you are superior. By the way, what's the cost of a single sheet of 12 - 13 mm and how does this compare against a BS-1088 sheet?
     
  3. WindRaf
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    WindRaf Senior Member


    of course is expensive, but the title in this thread....
    if you want to know the cost, ask here:

    http://www.nordcompensati.com/
     
  4. lenm
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    lenm Junior Member

    OK, thanks guys - some good points raised (and some friendly banter:) ).
    I've done some further investigation re the points raised and it seems a BS-1088 sheet in my country seems to hold little value. A lot of cheap stuff is being imported from Asia which is stamped as BS-1088 but clearly the quality is questionable.
    We have a local standard here AS-2272 which may exceed BS-1088.
    See here:
    http://australply.com.au/index.php/products/austral-marine
    Thoughts??
    Seems to be based around a local pine species (hoop pine). This may be the only sure fire way of obtaining a bonafide/ certified quality ply over here.
    If I am going to spend 400hrs on a build I just dont want to put rubbish materials into it.
     
  5. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    Seems like "superlaminated" is a marketing name. 1mm ply are common on most plywood. Thicker than that is only found in very low grade tyypes.
     
  6. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Agreed Gonzo, it's a brand name and unlike what Windraf thinks, this name isn't suggesting it's better or stronger or stiffer or even cheaper (it's not), but is simply denoting it's new formaldehyde emission certification to the newest standards, of course something else Windraf wouldn't know about either. To be more specific, they've gone to a phenol adhesive (type 1) to gain compliance and this new certification.
     
  7. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    Is that for smoke inhalation in case of fire?
     
  8. outdoorplay
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    outdoorplay Junior Member

    Love the work they build beautiful boats
     
  9. Mr Efficiency
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    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    Lenm, have you checked out Bowdidge boat designs website ? Might be some info about materials there to help you.
     
  10. DennisRB
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    DennisRB Senior Member

    This thread gave me a headache. Is Xynole easily laminated? Does it add strength or just abrasion resistance?
     
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  11. DennisRB
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    DennisRB Senior Member

    Found a thread here with links to a west system article. Seems to me Xynole etc is so damn heavy once its wet out, and adds no strength. Even though abrasion and impact resistance is good. I do wonder if you layered glass to equal the weight if it would be any less abrasion resistant.

    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?6640-Xynole-polyester-cloth
     
  12. Mr Efficiency
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    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    I'd suggest a 20 foot boat, especially if it has no cabin structure and is relatively lightweight, with this blessed "Carolina flare" would be more a liability than anything else. You really don't want the aerodynamic bow lift from hollow flare running upwind, it only makes your boat take off skywards. It might look like a million dollars to some eyes, but about the only benefit you will get is a drier boat at trolling speed in sloppy conditions. A shape with better aerodynamic penetration would do better, imo.
     
  13. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    Carolina boats, even at 20 feet, are designed for operating in rough conditions. I have built and run many of them for years. They are of commercial fishing pedigree. Don't let the fancy finish of recent models make you think they are pleasure boats for nice weather.
     
  14. Mr Efficiency
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    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    In this size range and especially in a light hull, he'd be better without it, imo.
     

  15. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    No, Xynole and Dynel do not add strength or stiffness to a laminate, just greatly improved abrasion resistance. Both of these fabrics are a little harder to apply than conventional 'glass fabrics, but certainly doable by novices, with some care. Yes, they do absorb higher quantities of resin than 'glass cloth or knitted cloth. I don't have a comparison on mat verses Xynole or Dynel, though I'll bet similar weight mats will absorb more resin then these fabrics. I did test two layers of Xynole against two layers of 8 ounce (270 gsm) cloth and the 'glass abated much quicker, which I attribute to the resin/fiber ratio, which was obviously higher in the Xynole. Fiber weight was nearly the same, though resin was over twice as much. Both test samples were laid up on 3/4" plywood, then covered with a 1/4" thick hunk of plate glass, to offer a smooth, uniform surface to sand on.

    On a 20' hull, the weight of the sheathing isn't a real concern, comparatively, particularly a typical Carolina flare sportfish type of build, where scantlings will be above normal standards (usually). On a small daysailor racer, canoe or kayak, certainly an issue to explore, where another material might prove a better usually a more costly choice.

    My whole contention in this thread isn't the choices, but the appropriate application of products, in keeping with the project. Some are of the opinion that only carbon/Kevlar and fancy named hardwood panels should be used, which simply flies in the face of 90% of the builds, folks here would undertake. For most, the choice of a plywood hull, suggests costs are a prime motivation behind hull shell material choices, which instantly discounts the use of carbon and Kevlar, not to mention costly, new compliance plywood that isn't any different than any other EO compliant panels.

    Yes, Gonzo, this new certificate is both fire rate and VOC release related.
     
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