career prospects very limited??? read this link provided!

Discussion in 'Education' started by elsaadir, Jan 31, 2006.

  1. elsaadir
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    elsaadir New Member

  2. sheetal
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    sheetal New Member

    hi dis is sheetal frm India.can u pl tell me more bout da boat design. im pursin my masters in aerodynamics and submarines
     
  3. Smoothride
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    Smoothride Dog Owner

    OK, I've read this post, so what?

    Hi All,

    Yup, according to this post, this guy is not happy at his job. He probably had a bad experience recently, and is emotional about it. Just while we shouldn't make decisions when we're emotional, niether should we make decisions based on someone else who is emotional.

    My point is: there are plenty of negative responses to sincere and earnest questions on this forum and elsewhere. May I suggest you note them, file them in your memory for the future, and keep going.

    If it's your ambition to do something, then you'd better do it. If you don't, you'll be wondering about it for the rest of your life.

    Regards,
    SR
     
  4. joz
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    joz Senior Member

    not a happy chap
     
  5. L.DOSSO
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    L.DOSSO Junior Member

    What this man wrote can seem pessimistic.However he said true things. Designing a boat very seriously requires a lot of time and a lot of personnal investement because you have to build the boat in your mind and the try to re-transcript it on the paper. When you have to cover the all range of components which are on your new craft ,kind of nautical object for which everything has to be thought , an object that has living accomodations and that must run to a given speed ,that must float aright,that must be strong enough....I don't say its impossible but it requires hard work and you live with the boat in your mind during the design process.So I understand what he said.And this is not something that makes you inevitably happy. It can make you sad especielly when your idea do not mach public's taste or style/concept trends of the moment.;) But to all folks that are designing a boat in this moment,keep courage! :rolleyes: lucas.
     
  6. Smoothride
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    Smoothride Dog Owner

    Dosso;

    I am receiving what you're sending, and I respect the original post, it is informative and shows how the industry can be. It's important to research the industry while you are studying in school or preparing credentials, to see where you'll fit in.
     
  7. L.DOSSO
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    L.DOSSO Junior Member

    That's not how I see things. For me, and it is the way I proceed, the idea of a new boat does not come to fulfill a void in a range of boat of a given brand that would have opportunities to be bought by the max number of customers.
    I find the enregy to create a boat cause its shape (sup,deck&hull) that I project in my head, is making me emotion feelings.It is not something I think of in terms of rentability but it is something I have the envy or strong willing to invest myself just because the shape or the style I imagined provides me good vibrations, like love thoughts. It is in fact purely egoist. The boat Xao which you can see in the gallery;I had had the envy along more than a year, to keep on going with that craft ,to keep on working maybe for nothiing, simply for the pleasure I have to for instance see that boat in rhino, that boat that I create,with all sometimes naive things,some things on that boat maybe not easy to build in reality, those weakness comes perhaps from the pictures I have of boats for a long time ( I ve got old rusted cargos in les sables,I ve got med. emergency speed boats in venezia) I have got night pictures in my head of illuminated river boat) and those pictures wich are a emmotional basis add themselves with yacht design method and rules I learn at westlawn. No doubt I am on the artistic way concerning yacht design ie that emotion comes first. Bye
     
  8. dgerr
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    dgerr Senior Member

    I can sympathize with the poster of the comments on www.vault.com re job prospects in naval architecture. This bleak picture has certainly not been our experience at Westlawn, however. Though Westlawn never promises employment to any student, the fact is we usually have more job listings than our graduates can fill, and many of our graduates have had (and are having) long and rewarding careers.

    Here are a few excerpts from comments by our alumni:

    “Westlawn gave me the training, background and confidence to make the jump from a yacht carpenter to a yacht designer. I have worked as Chief Engineer at Mako Marine, designing flats boats to cabin cruisers. As the Designer and Prototype Manager for Pursuit. And have been at Jamestown Metal Marine Sales for the past 10 years.

    I started in the marine industry 30 years ago, as a carpenter building plank-on-frame sport fishing yachts in South Florida. Today I am a Project Engineer for a major outfitting company. Some of my projects include the SBX, part of our Missile defense system, the DDG program at Bath, the new Woods Hole Ferry under construction at Halter, Polar Tankers constructed at Avondale, Articulated Tug Barges under construction at Bender.

    As a Project Engineer I supervise a staff of designers who have attended various institutions None match the background and depth I got from Westlawn I would like to find Westlawn students interested in ship interiors, outfitting and/or HVAC to employ here at Jamestown.

    The training I received Westlawn has been responsible for my career, not only the knowledge in vessel design, but also the work habits of self motivation and extra effort.

    Has my Westlawn training been useful?

    Yes, worth every penny, every hour of extra effort.”​

    Follow the link below to read all of D.C. Reiher’s comments:
    http://www.westlawn.edu/news/index.asp?displayfile=Reiher.htm
    D. C. Reiher – November 2006
    Project Engineer
    Jamestown Metal Marine Sales, Inc.
    http://www.jamestownmetal.com/main.html

    “Occasionally someone will ask, "How did you get into yacht design?” It's not an easy question to answer to the layman as I'm sure your story and others are as detailed as mine. One thing is sure, Westlawn provided me with the advanced knowledge and inspiration I needed to pursue career interests. In hindsight, without the technical yacht design experience Westlawn taught me it would have difficult at best to even get a foot in the door. This industry, especially then, is tight-nit and requires very specialized trades to participate. Westlawn uses a practical approach to teaching and this is reflected in the course material. It is a great tool for designing because of its practicality. I use it quite often in my designs as there is no one resource that has as much information and tools available for that specific purpose. The bonus is the historic designs and designers that are often referred to in the material. All of these things are reasons why it is a valued yacht design reference."​

    Geoff van Aller - February 2006
    Chief Designer
    Trinity Yachts
    Gulfport, MS
    http://www.trinityyachts.com/

    “Since I have added Yacht Design Lite to my resume I have had several job offers from different companies and even a promotion with the company I am employed with now. If any one is wondering if it would be beneficial to complete the program, I would say YES.”​

    Charles Bursk – November 2005
    Tiara Yachts
    Holland Michigan
    http://www.tiarayachts.com/Brix?pageID=1

    “Just thought I'd drop you a note to congratulate you on your 75th anniversary. While I never did graduate, I did study the Westlawn course for six years. It was a great foundation for my career!

    I enrolled in Westlawn in 1968 while still in the Navy, completing my lessons at sea in the chart room of the ship. I continued studying until August of 1974 when I had a design published in "Motor Boating & Sailing."

    I am currently a NAMS surveyor in Annapolis and have had my own successful business for over 16 years. I have been employed by two yacht yards and the US Navy. I spent three years on the drawing board primarily working for the Navy but doing some independent smaller design projects.

    In the last 20 years I have traveled to 40 countries surveying all manner of vessels from ocean going tugs and floating dry docks to yachts and high speed patrol boats.

    Many thanks for helping me establish a rewarding and wonderful career.”​

    John Howell NAMS CMS – November, 2004
    Annapolis, MD


    There are many more remarkable success stories available for review on the Westlawn website at:

    http://www.westlawn.edu/who/testimonials.asp

    and at:

    http://www.westlawn.edu/news/index.asp?displayfile=tradeOnlyWEB_NEWS.htm

    Dave Gerr
    Director
    Westlawn Institute of Marine Technology
     
  9. longliner45
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    longliner45 Senior Member

    I was told I was too short to be a specialforces paratrooper at age 17,,,wrong ,I was told you couldent catch enough fish to live on,,,,,,,,,wrong again,,I was told I was too old to start over as a powerlineman....wrong again,,if you listen to sourgrapes you will taste sourgrapes ,,,the Belgian commandos have a saying ( who dares wins ) ,,,,longliner
     
  10. Smoothride
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    Smoothride Dog Owner

    Thank you gentlemen! I heartily agree with the last two posts, and I look forward to seeing more like them!

    Looking at several marine-news websites lately, I've seen reference to the industry forecast improving over the next several years partly due to an aggresive advertising campaign by "discover boating" (maybe others); has anyone else seen that, any insight?

    Consider me to not have any marine industry insight right now, so even basic insight is appropriate. :D

    Also, since Asia is about to explode economically, do you (collectively) envision a surge in marine production/ a demand for boats/ships? Lately, some west coast designers seem to be working with asian boat yards (not across the board, but enough to get my attention -- Malaysia and China come to mind)...

    Regards,

    SR
     
  11. longliner45
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    longliner45 Senior Member

    all ya gotta do is go to a boat show,,,,,,,somebodys is paying somebody to design and build these 500.000 to 100,000,000 boats, who says the industrys in trouble?,longliner
     
  12. CDBarry
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    CDBarry Senior Member

    Normal engineering salaries in commercial and military naval architecture can be found through the Bureau of Labor Statistics. The average for NA's is mid 70K, slightly higher than engineers in general. Yacht design is too statistically small to be tracked, but in general, the offers I have seen from rec boat builders, from superyacht builders to small outboard motor boat bulders, have been 70%-80% of the comparable salary for a commercial NA. Yacht design firms are offering about 50-60%, though these jobs come up a lot less. However, these are all for degreed naval architects.

    (Recently offshore has gone crazy, and some firms are offering 10 year naval architects over $100K with signing/retention bonuses of $90K, but this is pretty far from yacht design.)

    As to looking at boat shows, this is a pretty good way of looking at it, but the numbers, when you get through them, aren't real encouraging, since design is such a small fraction of a boat's cost, especially for small outboard boats, and the low and average price end of the industry is in trouble, though superyachts are booming. The general feeling is that though the campaign is working, it is mainly slowing a slide that is due to limited family free time, economics, and competing activities that are more readily accessible, such as RVing, cycling, and so on.

    As to Asia, the income distribution is a real problem, with a very few very wealthy people, and large masses just getting by - these latter will want a decent house, a car (or a moped), etc. before they start thinking about boats. Recreational boating is also not culturally a big item in most of Asia, so there is a generation of re-education to do first, so most very wealth folk tend to go for land-type activities first (like the Middle East). There just isn't a tradition of yachting in Asia the way there is in Western Europe and the countries settled by Europeans. There are also various regulatory and practical issues that need to be settled for recreational boating in Asia, such as water access, restrictive operator licensing regimes, etc.
     
  13. Smoothride
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    Smoothride Dog Owner

    Many thanks Mr Barry;

    As always, you're insight is very appreciated, and leaves guys like me to ponder/seek and figure out the safest avenue to approach this crazy industry. I guess hard learned operational risk management will never leave me :) ORM is a useful skill to have in San Diego, I'm finding; the drivers here are nuts, it's taken me two years to learn how to survive on the highways down here. Stay far away if you can!!

    I have to agree:

    In "exciting" travels through the mid and far east, there was a huge division between the rich and poor, with little inbetween. Japan was more of an exception (Okinawa was more depressed than mainland Japan). It seemed from my limited vantage point, that this held true for ALL of the middle east, southeast asia, and korea. Keep in mind these were not nice parts of these countries, very much the opposite. Masirah- Oman comes to mind, Fort Humphries S. Korea, Manama Bahrain, Islamabad Pakistan, etc... the list goes on. Mopeds were the vehicle of choice in that garden spot of Utaphao, Thailand--but they used elephants for work--so they get some cool points. Yessir, those places were a long way from having fleets of private yachts. Commercially, however, Singapore was wide open, lots of traffic in the straits. The gulf was largely military ships sprinkled with plenty of dhows providing endless hours of entertainment. Dhows were the prominent smallcraft in the far and middle east. Some were pretty large (approx. 50 feet or greater). Commercial boat building yards in Asia may be an avenue for some to seek? Western Europe seemed a much better bet. Good times.

    Best Regards, and thanks again,

    Matt
     
  14. luckettg
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    luckettg Junior Member

    I read this gentleman's post and it parallels what I experienced as a Controls Engineer in the special machine building field. It became so discouraging that I changed careers in my early 50s. I believe he is telling it like it is for the USA market at least.
    Greg Luckett
     

  15. Smoothride
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    Smoothride Dog Owner

    Greg;

    Got any sea stories about how it is in your market sector?
     
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