Capsize Prevention Devices

You might have a look thru this very short subject thread, particularly the last posting on the Firebird catamaran's shroud detachment method.
 
They use flooding compartments and air pressure to empty them, like a submarine. For example, on a 45 foot catamaran the compartment would be at least 35 feet underwater. That needs at least 20 PSI of air for a slow fill. A 2 x 2 feet hatch would have a force exerted on it of over 11,000 lb as the boat lifts.
 
I would invite you to go experiment on a smaller cat,...say a Hobie 16. See if that works with your air bags :rolleyes: ...good luck!
Refloating devices are practical for lightweight multi hulls that are set up for expeditions or racing, they're not common and need a great deal of care and thought because of the danger that the sailor{s] would be in, it would be easy to compile problems and risk in that environment. Suggesting and liking the proposal that I choose a craft that is so light that a persons weight is enough, with extra windage once righted it would likely become more dangerous which makes your suggestion either not very well thought out or a meanspirited suggestion. I am a risk taker that spends a lot of time in cold water, to replicate conditions that would prove anything on a H16 suggests high risk, I can think of more rewarding risks and more satisfying ways to learn, so if anyone reading these posts is considering the idea because 2 very experienced older white men thought its worth a try, don't, it is a life threatening scenario that I suspect was not concerned with potential outcomes which suggests a reckless and insincere post.
 
I've had lots of experiences righting small cats,...Hobie cats, Prindle cats, NACRA cats, and Stiletto cats. !! So my suggestion was not reckless, only your suggestion that it would be reckless in cold waters.

The small beach cats were sealed hull, so no extra flotation was needed in the hulls. There was some differences in the weights of the crew members trying to right the boats,..and very often it related to the weights of the boats themselves.

As i said before I am not so concerned about righting the overturned multihull as I am about PREVENTING the capsize.

I feel it would much more productive to pursue the use of those flipping cam cleats. The cam cleats themselves can be fashioned to work with most size lines, and the flipping action works in all cases. It needs then to just concentrate on what allows the flipping action, and how can that be best made automatic,...and adjustable. (Seems like the French have done the most experimenting so far?)
 
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Perhaps the gentlemen that are interested in the righting questions should go visit this subject thread,..

 
Beach cats are routinely righted by the crew. It is fun in warm water.
 
I've had lots of experiences righting small cats,...Hobie cats, Prindle cats, NACRA cats, and Stiletto cats. !! So my suggestion was not reckless, only your suggestion that it would be reckless in cold waters.

The small beach cats were sealed hull, so no extra flotation was needed in the hulls. There was some differences in the weights of the crew members trying to right the boats,..and very often it related to the weights of the boats themselves.

As i said before I am not so concerned about righting the overturned multihull as I am about PREVENTING the capsize.

I feel it would much more productive to pursue the use of those flipping cam cleats. The cam cleats themselves can be fashioned to work with most size lines, and the flipping action works in all cases. It needs then to just concentrate on what allows the flipping action, and how can that be best made automatic,...and adjustable. (Seems like the French have done the most experimenting so far?)
I've had lots of experiences righting small cats,...Hobie cats, Prindle cats, NACRA cats, and Stiletto cats. !! So my suggestion was not reckless, only your suggestion that it would be reckless in cold waters.

The small beach cats were sealed hull, so no extra flotation was needed in the hulls. There was some differences in the weights of the crew members trying to right the boats,..and very often it related to the weights of the boats themselves.

As i said before I am not so concerned about righting the overturned multihull as I am about PREVENTING the capsize.

I feel it would much more productive to pursue the use of those flipping cam cleats. The cam cleats themselves can be fashioned to work with most size lines, and the flipping action works in all cases. It needs then to just concentrate on what allows the flipping action, and how can that be best made automatic,...and adjustable. (Seems like the French have done the most experimenting so far?)
Which only points out that adding floatation devices to a hobie 16 you know is a frivolous and unnecessary waste of time and effort , which was my point, I suspect you were annoyed with the thread drift.
 
Which only points out that adding floatation devices to a hobie 16 you know is a frivolous and unnecessary waste of time and effort , which was my point, I suspect you were annoyed with the thread drift.
I was only trying to point out that adding flotation devices (whatever) to the hull structures was not necessarily helpful for righting an overturned multihull,...witness the sealed hulls of those smaller cats. You couldn't ask for more flotation than 100% in those hulls,..did it help with righting?
 
Gunboat 66 capsizes in 18-22 knots of wind ?

How to react in an overturned cat,...something to think about,..

Interesting comment of failed escape hatches
 
There have been some narrow catamarans with ballasted keels that are self-righting.
 
Perhaps the gentlemen that are interested in the righting questions should go visit this subject thread,..


I would much rather spend time on PREVENTING the capsize in the first place! !
 
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Pivoting Cam Cleats
I post these photos of one particular sample, ...as they might get lost/missed in all these discussions.


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This is the one I used on the kick-up centerboards on the FP Louisane 37 cat I imported into the US.
I also used then on the centerboard and the rudder on our Firefly 26 trimaran
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I like the simplicity of a 'releasing' cam cleat, and the simplicity of getting it to release by tilting it rather than pulling on the sheet line to relieve pressure by the cam cleats.
 
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What are the primary contributors to capsizing catamarans??


1) Tall Full-Battened Mainsails
They are the primary contributors. They have the height/lever-arm to take those BIG multiple increases in the force exerted by those sudden gust of squall conditions, and turn them into overturning forces. Why do all the knowledgeable sailors, and the manufacturers themselves suggest taking a reef of the main as a first defense,...and not only a single reef, ...but often a double reef for safety purposes !! and hopefully one will have the time and extra person to perform that task.
Have a look at those 2 previous examples I posted,...experienced crew that were anticipating foul weather, and yet were overwhelmed and capsized.


2) Tall Full-Battened Mainsails
They are a primary contributor to pitch-poling. They are contributor to diagonal stability,...bow down attitude. Look at their height and the design of the drafts in their construction,..
The draft pocket of the main is inclined to the vertical such that the sail drives forward and downward. On reaches and broad reaches this contributes lots of downward pressure on the hull(s), and particularly the bow(s). I talked about it long ago on my website,... Equally important the draft pockets on these two headsails are both in harmony, lifting and driving ahead as opposed to the old Bermudian mainsail which drove downward on a reach.

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If you really want to experience it first hand, go take a beach cat for a sail downwind in some heavy air.


So a question is, 'Why do all of the manufactures continue to design and build their catamarans with these big full-battened, Bermudian mainsails ??
 
I think that using headsails only is one way of reducing the risk of pitchpoling.
 
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