cant make my mind

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by kaor, Dec 8, 2010.

  1. pdwiley
    Joined: Jun 2008
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    pdwiley Senior Member

    I asked the designer of my boat how long it'd take him to build one and then multiplied that estimate by 3. I don't really expect to make that timeline either but it's a goal to aim for.

    PDW
     
  2. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    Well, that seperates those, knowing the business, from the dreamers. Having a hand at it, makes one much more aware of the shitty cases, when the reality overcomes the calculations.
    M&M Ovenden (Murielle) have made a lot of mistakes, but they did know, it was not the cheapest way to have a boat.
    Now they go a steady pace, a slow one, and a expensive one.....
    ..towards a perfect boat.


    Regards
    Richard
     
  3. pdwiley
    Joined: Jun 2008
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    pdwiley Senior Member

    When I was project managing big IT projects I'd ask my programmers for their estimated time to complete pieces of work, then I'd multiply it by 3 and that's what went into the Gantt chart. Nobody ever accounts fully for conceptual errors, sick/holiday leave, people leaving, thinking time etc, let alone change requests when clients change their minds. We used to come in under time and on budget - mostly.

    I've built 3 houses including a 3 storey one with a steel post & beam frame welded together - I like big clear span rooms. The last house I built was about the size of the top floor of the big one. I learnt not to build things that were too big just because I could.

    I've also designed & built complex computer software systems in many different languages over the last 30 years.

    For me at least there's a rule of 3. The first time you may have the theory but the practice has to be learnt. Theory != practice. So, techniques and acquisition of tools. The second time you know what not to do and a fair chunk of what to do plus you buy/build more tools. The third time all goes smoothly because you know what you're doing and have the tools to do it - or else you should give up.

    After that I'm bored and want to do something new - never seen the sense in repeating mistakes when there are so many new ones to try.

    I'm on boat number 1 and it's going exactly as per my expectation. It isn't on time and it isn't on budget. I'm an amateur, I don't care (much).

    PDW
     
  4. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    Well, in the end it always comes to the same result. You either know your business, or you re-invent the wheel.
    After over 40 years in the Construction business (apart from yachts), and some 288 Holiday resorts built, I know what I know, but I don´t know, what awaits me tomorrow.

    Only complete novices know it all, and know how to implement their knowledge.
    Pro´s know not even a fraction of that, but they know how to get the required result done with the limited resources.

    As a aside, it is always a pleasure to see those, capable of doing what is toooo much a task, coming from the same source, decent, knowledgeable seaman!
    Regards
    Richard
     
  5. kaor
    Joined: Dec 2010
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    Location: croatia

    kaor Junior Member

    Apex, you are generalizing a bit. Not all sculptors are same. No, I dont wanna build a boat to save money ( I can buy I second hand boat and restore it for less), I wanna build boat because I wanna create. i know is hard, time consuming, a costly. The reason I said that building a tender is waste of money came of conclusion that If i dont need it, then spending a money on it is waste of money, Isnt it? And Id wood cost me 1 or 2 k euros to build it, and Im limited with money .My thinking is that 20ft boat is out of reach for 60% of amateurs, but Im still hoping that im in that other 40%
     
  6. bulk-head
    Joined: Dec 2007
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    Location: Antigua

    bulk-head Junior Member

  7. breschau
    Joined: Nov 2010
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    breschau Junior Member

    Let me present myself as an exception to your generalization. I am an educated Turk. There are many traditional boat builders at our northern coast. None of them will work for 400tl a month.
     
  8. bulk-head
    Joined: Dec 2007
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    bulk-head Junior Member


    Be careful when you listen to anything this APEX guy says. He has some form of personality disorder...Hopefully he is on medication...

    We are all fully aware of salaries and fully aware of top class, well educated Turkish boat builders and designers. Once again...BEWARE of what APEX says...he likes to talk down to people in order to make his meager skills attractive. The Internet breeds this type.

    Many arrogant half wits on Boat Design net. who try to sell their skills to the unaware.
     
  9. breschau
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    breschau Junior Member

    Huh?
    I have read a lot of this forum and I have no personal issues against anyone here. You seem to have issues with him, settle whatever score you have on your own accord.
     
  10. bulk-head
    Joined: Dec 2007
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    bulk-head Junior Member

    BRESCHAU

    What does ???
    "A uneducated Turk (they are all uneducated) costs me a mere 400 TL a month. Thats less than 200 €. It takes me ten years to tell him to walk upright and do not **** on his hands while eating.
    ten by twelve by 200 is= 24000" ...... Have to do with a Croatian guy who would like to build a 20 ft boat. APEX is an idiot...if he has nothing construtive to say to this Croatian forum member concerning the construction of a Paul Gartside yacht ...he should keep his foul racist mouth shut.
     
  11. kerosene
    Joined: Jul 2006
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    kerosene Senior Member

    Yep, Apex has sometimes valuable input and his parade in banging sense to hopeless dreamers while abrasive is often correct and needed. But this was too much.

    There are stereotype or two of the german people too but most of us have the sensibility to be above such vile and juvenile assaults.
     
  12. bulk-head
    Joined: Dec 2007
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    bulk-head Junior Member

    The purpose of a forum is to provide advice, help, encouragement to ANYONE who asks. No one has the right to talk down, belittle, ridicule or judge any forum member intentions or skill level. That guy APEX needs to have the hot air let out of him.
     
  13. kerosene
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    kerosene Senior Member

    I agree that ridicule is not cool but in very politically correct forums where everybody is only supportive even bad ideas get support.

    This forum gets a constant flow of people coming up with same bad ideas and those ideas get slammed. Which is right thing to happen - sure some times its more constructively put than other times.

    For telling how long it takes for a particular nationality to learn not to **** on their hands - not so cool .
     
  14. kaor
    Joined: Dec 2010
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    Location: croatia

    kaor Junior Member

    I divide things on possible and impossible. I dont care how hard it is as long is possible.
     

  15. Pierre R
    Joined: May 2007
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    Location: ohio, USA

    Pierre R Senior Member

    This is not a good philosophy for building a boat. This implies much "re-inventing the wheel" so to speak.

    A much better philosophy is "I want to do the most practical, least expensive and most efficient way of completing this boat build that delivers the boat that I expect." That implies a good design and an efficient well executed build plan.
     
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