Canoe modifications

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by archeryrob, Nov 21, 2010.

  1. archeryrob
    Joined: Dec 2008
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    Location: Western maryland

    archeryrob Junior Member

    I am getting ready to start on making layout boats for waterfowl hunting. They make hybrids out there (flat and boxy) that are stable but don't track. Plus my area is very rocky and I am not wanting to stitch and glue and fiberglass just to rub the fiberglass off.

    My plan is to cut this canoe (17' ramX) in half and two very squared stern boats that are topped with wood, fabric and epoxy with a hunters hatch opening for doors.

    [​IMG]

    This is the design thought I had for chines for secondary stability and it was 2'-2" across the flat with 7" chines on a 45 degree make it 38" wide. Once I removed the aluminum from the top I found this Polypropylene to be very flexible and I can open it even wider. (used to the stiffness of my ABS canoe)

    Top - original hull cross section
    Middle - proposed new shaped hull cross section. Plastic only coming to the top of the side gunwale board.
    Bottom - New transom insert shape.
    [​IMG]

    The boat will mainly be rolled with wheels like a canoe dolly, set into hunting place and rowed for fetching downed birds. (50 to 100 yards) maybe later powered with one of them straight shaft week wacker mud motors. Used on flat water on a river or very miler currents. I plan to keep the bow shape and spread the sides and back as much as I can for usable width for stability and space. Any suggestions on designs on this end, or stern? I am assuming the 8.5' length and eddy factor paddling will be my main problems.

    Looking for advice.
     
  2. gonzo
    Joined: Aug 2002
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    gonzo Senior Member

    If you want stability, that is not a very good design. Those have very low initial stability. Also, using someones design can get you into a lot of legal troubles. Essentially you are splashing, that is taking a mold from a design that is under intellectual property. Since you are making major modifications, that may not be an issue. Consult a lawyer. We make canoes that are bolted in the middle and also engine modules for them. The stern should be faired into the forward section. What you drew would have a step and drag a lot. Here is a photo of when we are bolting both halves together.
     

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  3. archeryrob
    Joined: Dec 2008
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    Location: Western maryland

    archeryrob Junior Member

    Ok, I don't need a lawyers. I am not selling these boats. I am cutting and modifying my own boat.

    I understand it will make drag, but I am not taking it treking. I will roll it on land most of the way to where we will use it. I am looking for suggestion on improving stability and reducing drag, if possible on the stern. I just want some ideas i might be able to use, if they are practical. Should I round the chines? Make the stern a little different? I can't sweep up the stern as that would require possibly cutting and splicing the hull and I would like to keep it intact except for the stern splicing.
     
  4. SamSam
    Joined: Feb 2005
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    Location: Coastal Georgia

    SamSam Senior Member

    Cut it in half. Cut a transom of whatever shape you figure might work in a piece of scrap 3/4 " plywood and screw it in with some screws and caulking, maybe some duct tape. Take it out and see what happens, if it works, make it permanent.
     
  5. alan white
    Joined: Mar 2007
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    Location: maine

    alan white Senior Member

    You'll find yourself rowing with your feet pinned to the stern because the bow will otherwise sink in an ungainly way as it has little buoyancy. Stability will be half what it is now.
    Why two boats? If you stick to one you could make two transoms, one at each end. Then it could be a lot more stable and a bit longer, like 9-10 ft.
    Cutting the canoe in the middle makes two grossly distorted boats.
     
  6. ancient kayaker
    Joined: Aug 2006
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    Location: Alliston, Ontario, Canada

    ancient kayaker aka Terry Haines

    What is the matter with the canoe you already have? If you just want a boat with more stability you can tack swimming pool noodles along each side to make sponsons which will increase stability considerably. Lots of hunters and anglers do this. You can also buy kits, or so I've heard; try googling for sponsons. You can get up to 50% more stability this way.

    I would try using double-sided outdoor carpet tape as a temporary fix to establish the best position and quantity for your purposes, then fasten them permanently with aluminum strips cut from drink cans and POP rivets.
     
  7. archeryrob
    Joined: Dec 2008
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    Location: Western maryland

    archeryrob Junior Member

    The plan is to just spread the polypropylene hull wide. and cut the bow lower.

    It's going to be like this when finished, but maybe slightly higher in the bow and top deck. This is a sculling boat and the stern sweeps up in the back. I am not sure I can get this hull to do that with out re-vacuforming it.
    [​IMG]

    I know it's not going to be really stable, but well enough for a guy sitting with a kayak paddle. I was just looking for ideas for improvements on the chines or a better way to help reduce drag from the square stern.

    It will have 3/4" pipe with welded flanges screwed to the stern when 1/2 pipe can be slide in. This wil allow wheels to be attached and rolled to where ever we hunt. Paddling is only a minor use. I know it's going to be doggy. I just don't want it to be horrid when it could be slightly improved.

    In its main use it we roll it a 1/2 mile, place it in 2" to 4" of water and shoot waterfowl and keep the man dry while laying down or sitting up. Have you all seen the Hybrid duck boats? I was looking to do something very similar as these are very stable but do not track, period. This should hold up better on rocks than wood and fiberglass and tack better with the bow.

    I would like a little advice, beside, "Are you that stupid!" ;)
     
  8. archeryrob
    Joined: Dec 2008
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    archeryrob Junior Member

    Remember guys, the use is completely different. This is made to lay in, shoot out of and cover with grass. Even though it's a boat paddling, and being underway, is a sideline for this boat.
     
  9. ancient kayaker
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    ancient kayaker aka Terry Haines

    Here's some advice. Make a small model of the canoe - it doesn't have to precise - using thin card or even paper. Then look at what happens when you spread the sides.

    If you decide to revisit the stitch and glue approach note that Dynel is more abrasion-resistant than fiberglass.
     
  10. gonzo
    Joined: Aug 2002
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    gonzo Senior Member

    It will more work and you will end up with a lower quality product by modifying that canoe. Build a sneakbox or if you want something simple a jonboat.
     
  11. archeryrob
    Joined: Dec 2008
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    Location: Western maryland

    archeryrob Junior Member

    Thanks guys, I will give it a shot as it is and see what happens.

    My one buddy wants a sneak box and they are great on open water and marshes. But fiberglass and rocks just don't mix. If this works later on I might make one with a welder and aluminum to different specs.
     
  12. archeryrob
    Joined: Dec 2008
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    Location: Western maryland

    archeryrob Junior Member

    I need recommendations for a glue for the polyethylene and wood at the transom. I plan to glue and then racket strap the hull to the transom for even pressure all around. I read about using contact cement but I know how much trouble PE can be to glue. Later the outside edge of the hull and transom will be fiber glassed taped and epoxied so the glue is extra insurance.

    I measured the hull again and expanded the bottom hull width to 36" and both side chines to 6" and it's about 44" at the beam width just above the water line now. I will be able to stretch that though the 1/3 back for the boat. Combined with the fact the cabin access hatch is only 2' wide the man in the boat will not be able to do much but most keep the weight near mid ship and not shift to the sides to roll it.
     
  13. archeryrob
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    archeryrob Junior Member

  14. BATAAN
    Joined: Apr 2010
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    BATAAN Senior Member

    So you're making a ducker? 8'6" is awfully short. Better to make it 12'.
     

  15. hoytedow
    Joined: Sep 2009
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    hoytedow Carbon Based Life Form

    Good luck getting that to hold polyethylene.
     
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