can you decrease plate thickness or use FC for a tug?

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by tugboat, Apr 17, 2010.

  1. darr
    Joined: Nov 2004
    Posts: 129
    Likes: 2, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: -21
    Location: Tampa, FL

    darr Open Minded

    So why would you expect a Fiberglass material to perform in reference to your above report, which I am not familiar with.

    Would you not subject the material to the same reports and standards as a Fiberglass material, since it is in fact fiberglass.
  2. Ad Hoc
    Joined: Oct 2008
    Posts: 7,698
    Likes: 1,570, Points: 113, Legacy Rep: 2488
    Location: Japan

    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    Yes you would, any material, for the same reasons. Thus which is easier to build a boat with and to a consistent and known standard of properties and is lighter etc etc?

    One can build a boat out of anything you like, Switz cheese if you like (if you can get it to pass the tests required), so long as you, the designer/builder, understands the limitations of the material being used and can mitigate all the technical issues as well as the 'clients', to achieve the SOR, and have a safe reliable seaworthy vessel.
  3. darr
    Joined: Nov 2004
    Posts: 129
    Likes: 2, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: -21
    Location: Tampa, FL

    darr Open Minded

    A 17 ton displacement boat is going to weigh the same regardless of what material it is made of. Granted there is a tradeoff for carrying capacity and in some instances light air performance in exchange for safety and strength.

    We have never considered it to be the ideal material, simply a good material for a particular method of construction. It was never targeted for mass production methods either.

    Once again there are tradeoffs, very labor intensive to build, much lower maintenance than most other methods over the long run, stronger than a conventional glass hull, but weighs more, so less carrying capacity.

    Talk to any current or former owners, barrier coat it when you build it, keep the bottom paint up and forget about it.

    I sort of have to chuckle about the comment regarding a bunch were built and those that are still around are ok.

    Heres the score so far.

    Known boats with issues:

    A mystery Adams 50 that no one can provide hard data on that supposedly had an issue, however no documentation.

    Known boats without issues:

    Tincup - sound and no issues other than storm damage after 30 years

    Siboney - sound and no issues after 35 years, reportedly headed to Alaska

    Gitana- reputeadely the first Fer-A-Lite boat built, in charter service

    Constance - sound and sailing in California 30+ years old

    Schooner Anne - recently completed 1152 days non stop 35+ years old

    Don't remember the name, but there is a samson at Pine Island in FL as well.

    Oh yes, and a 55' in Australia that the owners are happy with, has a stainless armature I believe, but the name again escapes me.
  4. Pierre R
    Joined: May 2007
    Posts: 461
    Likes: 32, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 458
    Location: ohio, USA

    Pierre R Senior Member

    Tugboat there are many things that we can infer from your posts and some things that we cannot.

    You mention the fact that boat design is a lot about intuitive nature and that numbers are only as good as the common sense will allow. We do not know if you possess this common sense as we have not seen that in your posts one way or another. If you have it you are way ahead of the game. Others with similar MO's in these forums definitely do not possess common sense.

    We cannot infer that you do not have the knowledge to construct some type of object that will float. We do see pieces missing in your knowledge of how to contruct in a more efficient manner.

    We can infer that you cannot afford the boat that you would like. Most people contemplating a build themselves cannot. You have indicated this many times in your posts regardless of what you might think you have conveyed.

    We can infer that if you possess the books, you do not understand or do not want to follow them. You do not follow any kind of a design spiral or seem to comprehend basic scantlings rules. These are things well laid out in the books you have said to own. Indeed the very title question of this thread is easily answered in the books you claim to possess.

    We can infer that you do not value your own time very highly. You have said this many times and every thing you contemplate also infers this. We can also infer that you do not value our time either.

    It does little good to get testy as none of us has any financial stake nor risk in any way in you success or failures. There is no skin off our noses. It's always great entertainment to watch a train wreck and comment which seems to be the case in this thread.

    As many experts here have commented; They will not design their own boats even though that is their profession as they will have a fool for a client. Just like the old saying "A doctor who treats himself has a fool for a patient". You clearly show you are not immune.
  5. Pierre R
    Joined: May 2007
    Posts: 461
    Likes: 32, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 458
    Location: ohio, USA

    Pierre R Senior Member

    A prime example. Basic designing ??? For a tug boat no less ??????
  6. tugboat

    tugboat Previous Member

    So because you cant provide facts for your rant--you start to insult--how old r u again?

    leave this thread your not welcome here anymore...i think the onyl thing youve proven is who the REAL *** is...
  7. tugboat

    tugboat Previous Member

    you might want to brush up on the difference between a fact and a opinion...

    since i dont value your time--and you offer me nothing anyway--why are you still here telling me that i dont know anything??...think what you will about me and my alledged lack of knowledge...
  8. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    a good one!

    no, really........................:D
  9. Bruce46
    Joined: Jul 2006
    Posts: 81
    Likes: 3, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 49
    Location: Stuart, Fla.

    Bruce46 Junior Member

    I went back and reread the origional post and have this comment. If you can't afford to build the boat with the materials necessary for its intended use, don't build it!
  10. Pierre R
    Joined: May 2007
    Posts: 461
    Likes: 32, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 458
    Location: ohio, USA

    Pierre R Senior Member

    Bruce46 is right.
    From post number one on this thread:
    We can naturally conclude that you cannot afford the boat period. You can't even afford the hull let alone the rest of the damned boat. You stated it not me.:confused:

    Dang if you are gonna get testy at least research what the hell YOU wrote.
  11. tugboat

    tugboat Previous Member

    point taken
  12. tugboat

    tugboat Previous Member

    pierre r once again--ive read it over--tell me where i said what you apparently quoted??.."that I could not afford the boat period???" "that I cant even afford the hull"? your grasping at straws...but there is a post where i do a cost breakdown...

    since you all want to know my finances so bad here it is-- the boat to build is about 20 000 to 25 000 reasonably...and thats being generous--dont worry i costed it out. took the plans to a steel dealer and talked to the engineers there. Now if i figure on a three year build-- at inputing 700.00 per month thats hmm (thinking)- lets see about Oh will you look at that!! 25 200!! wow...your right cannot afford it i guess...
    c'mon ..go stomp on someone elses dreams but f-off if you got nothing better to say...
    yea im gettign tired of people who KNOW they KNOW better than me...even if they are--i dont give a crap go find soemwhere else to get your fix...
    my reasons for being cost effective is to save money as im sure everyone is going to do if they done with finances--now if anyone can help me find someone who will do auto cad for me..ill pay them, please input...

  13. tugboat

    tugboat Previous Member

    you mean this?: the only other thing i could do since i cannot afford 1/4 inch plate, AND rolled(would it even need to be rolled?- coudn't it be strip planked or clinker style?) is to buy 3/16 plate and ballast it a little more...

    i think its self evident what i meant by that..and not anyweher did i say I cannot afford to build a boat...i meant that i cant afford commercial operations to build im sure few can...when i went to the steel dealer--they wanted to nest it out...thast about the cost of the hull alone--the reason people build hulls isnt about gettign what they want--its about saving money since you CAN just build as you go and dont need the outlay of 25 000 outright--plus interest on a loan and mayeb some of you are like me and hate banks and will do anything to make them less powerful including NOT getting loans...or paying more than i have to to build it...Im not rich but im able to do what i done with the finances issues...
  14. tugboat

    tugboat Previous Member

    why not???

  15. tugboat

    tugboat Previous Member

    yes thats true since im not the one in denial about that...

    what they need on this site is a thread starter block buttons so you could just delete users with useless input
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.