Can one of you upnorth painters help this guy

Discussion in 'Fiberglass and Composite Boat Building' started by Kaptin-Jer, Nov 3, 2007.

  1. Kaptin-Jer
    Joined: Mar 2004
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    Kaptin-Jer Semi-Pro

    I kinda know what I'm doing with Awl-Grip down here, but Ron has emailed me about colder temps and I'm not that familiar with the reducer ratio for his temps. He is rolling and tipping. This is part of his email: (He is talking about 545.)

    "I am boarder line to on the temperature. It was 65 in my storage unit today and it did not flash off very fast. it made it possible to go back over and roll out the bubbles. The foam roller seems to do better then a brush at this point. I am still learning though. I am hoping it only drops to 55 in the storage unit. I have some heat lamps running in-case it gets colder then it is suppose to tonight. I will allow it another day before I begin sanding for the second primer coat."

    Can one of you guys that paints in cooler temps help him out?
     
  2. the1much
    Joined: Jul 2007
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    the1much hippie dreams

    is he mixing 1 ta 1 ?,, i've never sprayed under 65 before. he needs ta get a heater ( salamandor, or propane ) heat it up real good before he paints,, then if he's worried bout the fumes igniting they shouldnt where he's one of those a' slow" painters ;)
    this is awl-grips rule fer reduction for rolling,,
    2 parts top coat, 1 part awl-cat #3/h3002 brushing converter ( i neva knew they had this heh) and mix togather till a gay,,i mean homogenous mixture is obtained, then reduce 25% ta 33% with t0031.
    ratio works out ta 2:1:3/4-1 by volume ( 8oz base,4oz h3002,3-4oz t0031)
    that said,, t0031 is a SLOW primer reducer for brushing-they also have a standard reducer fer primer t0006,,,,they also have FAST reducers but their for spraying,, and fast but i dont think he would like those results,, see if he's mixing the above,,and tell him ta STOP painting,, he's only gonna make it harder and more expensive on himself. he needs ta just mix the smallest amount he can measure staying with those ratio's and paint something small and not connected to his boat hehe ;),, and he needs to paint it in with his boat to see if it gonna work,,,waiting a day to see if it worked on some small piece of throwaway caca is worth waiting 6 months and another thousand bucks ;) if he dont come up with a better scenario ;),,, any more help man lemme know,,,,and if he or you want my e-maill addy here ya go lol
    SArebuilders@gmail.com
     
  3. Kaptin-Jer
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    Kaptin-Jer Semi-Pro

    Much-- I know all those mixes. The part I wasn't sure about was the how much reducer. Down here when it's 80 - 90 degrees I use about 20%. I didn't know what to tell him at cooler temps. Good idea you had for him to run a few test pieces at various %. BY the way I always use T0006, because I'm FAST!
     
  4. the1much
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    the1much hippie dreams

    hehehehe ya,, ya wife said that too ;) they have a "cold cure" for top coats for colder temps,,,,but they stress very highly not to use with primer,,,heh,,im thinking i'm gonna try and see why ;)
    and i dont remember ever painting in that cold,, so im at a loss too,, i did at 60 once, but since i sprayed i think it was easier too control cause i did many many coats bout as thin as my hairline heh ;)
    i can give ya awl-grips # if he wants to call and ask them,,or,,heh,, you call em, and then tell him it came to ya in ya sleep ;)
     
  5. ronc98
    Joined: Oct 2007
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    ronc98 Junior Member

    Thanks guys for the help.

    I am more concerned about how well it sticks due to the cold. So far the 545 has went on good and flows perfectly when it is reduced to about 15 percent. I am not painting below 55 and it does not drop below that point for at least 6 hours after I have rolled it on. At 15 percent it flows well enough with 3/16 nap roller cover not needing to be tipped with a brush. No orangepeel or anything.

    The only thing I have done differently is that I allow the coat of paint a few days to cure before I sand it. Seems to sand well and is not gummy.

    Top coating begins on friday when the temps head back over 50.

    I thought about the propane heater but the amount of moisture it puts into the air I think would be bad. From what I read it is more the dew point that is the issue and not the colder temps. Granted you can not paint in sub 40 degree weather but 45 to 50 with a low dew point you should be fine. At least that is what I have been told. We will know by sunday.
     
  6. the1much
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    the1much hippie dreams

    anticipated<big werds heh,,cure time at 77F/50%R.H 24 hours to tape free , 3 days to light service, 14 days ta full cure
    top coat roller :4 1/2 - 6 mils dry thickness, and ta do it in 2 coats, a minimum of 16 hours apart and if over 24 hours to sand before second coat
    and ive painted in some pretty big humidity, i painted in a shop with heated floors, after i wet down,, the humidity was so bad the boat started dripping,,hehe,, i squeegeed all the water out, turned the fans on, wiped down with denatured and sprayed,,,lmao,,, sumhow,( maybe fumes) it came out pretty good lol.. with the heater ,, open a door a little, and get a little fan in opposite corner and blow towards door, then let the temp go up a little,, turn it off,, wait a half hour,, start again,, a good test is to set a mirror a little above and off to the side about 3 feet and tilt the top out,,so ya gotta get on ya back on floor to admire yaself,,lol,,if condensation starts,,shut-er-down < im trying the "redneck" thingy out ;)
     
  7. the1much
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    the1much hippie dreams

    ok,, found awl-grip lit. ,, they say not under 60f. and at 60 this ,,reducer T0001,, pro-cure accelerator x-138/x-98,, dry time 18+/9-12days..
    ,,but thats what they recommend,,so as usual ya can go colder and they just wont stand behind it.and your lucky its still that warm up there heh ;) i was in ohio once,, went to ceder point park,,i think,,,or maybe that was jus a cool dream i had ;)
    and if the paint dries to the boat,,, it should stick,,,,,a good test is after full cure ( and no matter what awl-grip says,,i say full cure doesnt happen for about a month,,colder weather maybe 2,,, without sun even more), but anyways,, after full cure get a blow nozzle and turn ya compresser ALL the way up,,and blow down ya paint job,,, from like 2" away, and see if the paint flies. you could even do it to your primer before ya top coat,,,, but i would wait at least a week before trying.
     
  8. mastcolin
    Joined: Jun 2005
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    mastcolin Senior Member

    a brush with destiny?

    We have a cold cure additive for 545 in europe. You add it in addition to the std convertor and subtract volume from the thinner. Check the website if available in US.(it is different to the X-138 that comes in bottle)

    It will cure at 10C without this though. It will just take a while for all the solvent to come out. Don't ask me what 10C is in F.

    Just roll on this layers and leave 24hours or more between coats. Why sand between coats at all? If it will take it, just apply it within the 24hour no-sand time. Build up the layers and then let it cure off for few days then give it good sand for topcoat. You don't put on a thick coat by roller whatever. Sanding between coats just removes 5-10microns everytime. Good quality foam (remember to squeeze all air out from roller before you start to roll on surface) or very short nap felt rollers.

    One trick is to heat the paint. This way you get good viscosity without too much thinner.

    You are right about the dew point being problem. Luckily it is mainly surface effect ie you'll get amine sweat effect. This will clog paper till you break through. As with laminating, just wash it off with warm soapy water and scotchbrite. Alternatively, just sand 1st with rougher paper and be prepared to use more paper than originally planned.

    For topcoating, be careful with the brush solvent. It is real slow. At low temps I blend with the T0001 fast spray. This cuts the viscosity good and a small slug of the brush thinner gives that wet edge you need.

    It is down to your technique unfortunately. What is good for me is good for my roller and brush technique. You may be used to applying thicker coats and be one of these guys who brushes it out for ages so it isn't necessarily applicable. I roll with foam then just lightly over surface with 2inch brush once and once only(vertically on anything that isn't clinker built)

    I'd suggest that it is better to apply thin coats that maybe will take more coats to build total film than to get curtains that will be a nightmare to blocksand out at cold temps without problems ghosting through to final coat.

    The heating the paint trick still applies. Also, make sure you let the paint induct. It flows better and will be less prone to sag.

    Best of luck!
     
  9. the1much
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    the1much hippie dreams

    yuppers we have cold cure here too but it works here bout the same as the x stuff, except the x is slower then cold cure and cold cure only is recommended for spraying only, because of its fast flash time, and if ya flash line ever catch's up with ya the trouble begins,,,heh,, just like laying glass lol ;)
     
  10. ronc98
    Joined: Oct 2007
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    ronc98 Junior Member

    Thanks for the info guys.

    I actually tried to peel some of the 545 off to see if it sticks well and I could not scrap it off. So that is a good sign.

    I also got some info as well from Awlgrip, they say use 138 to speed the cure and I will be fine. Just have to let everything cure alot longer. Without the 138 accelerator cure times double for every 10 F before 77. I sure wish there was someone local that stocked awlgrip. I have to get it shipped and that will put me a few days behind schedule. Two weeks ago the weather was perfect, but a cold front moved in and kind of screwed up our nice weather pattern. Next week is going to be in the high 50-60's so if i can at least get the deck and nonskid painted I can hold off on everything else until it gets warmer.
     
  11. the1much
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    the1much hippie dreams

    good luck man,,,and great news on the 545 sticking :)
    man one of those marina's around that big lake of yours might have the color you need,,unfortunately they need to keep 10 grand worth on hand to be a dealer but thats only like 4 gallons haha ;)
     
  12. ronc98
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    ronc98 Junior Member

    I got lucky and found a place that I could get the 138 accelerator shipped in a day by normal UPS. Perhaps next time I should plan a little better.

    I put the first coat of topcoat on today and all I can say is WOW. the 545primer was impressive but it did not seem to cover much. The topcoat is simply amazing. It went on great I tipped it with a good brush and it leveled in about 5 minutes to a mirror shine. My prep work must have been good enough because with one coat is is mirror smooth. Well other then some dut here and there. I need to be more carful next time. I tacked ragged it before I painted but I think next time I am going to also tack rage the area I am about to paint as well.

    Thanks for all the help guys, I hope by sunday I will have all three coats on and be ready for the nonskid.
     
  13. the1much
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    the1much hippie dreams

    before you tac rag it,, get a lint-free rag,, drench it in denatured alcohol,, then wring it out,,then wring it again,,then flap it around like ya mom folding the laundry till its only DAMP,,not wet,, then as lightly as ya tac,, maybe a half time harder,, wipe,,but DONT push hard enough to leave a wet streak,,weather you can see it or not it will show up in final coat. then after denatured,, then tac. DONT ask me why it has to be done like this,, all i know is i thought it was stupid,, did it my way,,, then finally tried this way. now THIS way is the only way ;)
    if you do leave a streak ya need to sand,, or on final prob wet sand the streak ;(
     
  14. ronc98
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    ronc98 Junior Member

    Thanks for the advice. That is a good idea with the alcohol wipe. I tried this with the 545 with MEK but not realizing it would melt the 545 I just made it worse. (Sometimes I ride the short bus). Alcohol makes sense then a tak rage.

    I have to say I can not get over how well this stuff spreads out. It is completely amazing. I find myself looking for things to paint with the leftovers once I am done.
     

  15. the1much
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    the1much hippie dreams

    wells i knew you looked familiar,,, i was the dude strapped into the front seat,,,heh ;) and i'm glad it rolls as good as it sprays,, you "slow" dudes still aint gettin me ta roll and tipping anything over 10 foot heh ;) ,, P.S. ... still tac,,,,but alcohol before,,,,,,you'll see alot less on ya tac after
     
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