Can everybody design?

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by ekamarine, Apr 7, 2011.

  1. ancient kayaker
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    ancient kayaker aka Terry Haines

    You can be sure of 2 things. Today, design innovations have a better chance of producing worthwhile products than ever before because of modern knowledge and design tools. And not much of that innovation would work without modern materials and supply systems. I often wonder what the builders and designers of yesteryear could have come up with given our advantages; we can see further because we stand on the shoulders of giants.

    New ideas tend to originate from gifted amateurs. That’s partly because there’s so many of them and partly because they have freedoms that the professional doesn’t have.

    The paying customer expects and demands guaranteed results from a professional, and these expectations get less flexible with increased project size and complexity. As a former pro in the engineering arena I learned that the hard way. I noticed the free-wheeling originality of my youth turn to design conservatism over the decades, with the growth of seniority and responsibility, as the cost of failure soared into many millions.

    Now I am retired from all that, and what a delight it is to take risks and experiment with new concepts once again in the entirely new (to me) field of boat design! Computerized tools during the design process allow me to the most tedious steps in the learning process, and during the construction process readily-available and reasonably-priced workshop tools combine with materials my predecessors would have killed for, to give me a good chance of a successful outcome.

    Just as in my former field, there will always be a need and a place for the competent and experienced NA. But the great thing about boats - unlike areas like automobiles and aircraft - the amateur still has a place and a part to play. Individually it may be a small part - but there are lots of us!
     
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  2. Alik
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    Alik Senior Member

    The intrigue of the thread comes form opposition of dummies to knowledge.

    'We are creative because we are not naval architects'
    'We don't know anything so we can do innovative and fresh design'
    'We are so creative so we will do the 'design' and let those engineers do boring part of job'

    etc. etc.

    One self-confident guy walked into our office with 'innovative concept' of boat; later we found he even can not swim!

    To me, design is the combination of art and science aimed to create things that work.

    Pretty pictures, non-feasible concepts are something else but not the design.
     
  3. Ad Hoc
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    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    New ideas don’t come from gifted amateurs; they come from gifted people, period; regardless of their educational background and experience. Being an amateur or professional has nothing to do with it…and not all great ideas work too.

    To “design” in the sense of “making something” requires an understanding of the mechanism involved, so that one can manipulate/change/alter to make XXX actually work. And not just work, but demonstrate to anyone…why it works. Being able to change XXX and it works, but not know why it works…is just trial by error. In which case, experience and/or qualifications are not prerequisites. As such, any child at school can “design” by this definition.

    Design is abstract and remains abstract until it requires a measure or explanation of “its” success/failure to someone else. How that is conveyed and received depends upon the person explaining and the person receiving.

    Computers don’t design, they just simply speed up this process. It either makes a good design quicker, or a crap design quicker, that is all.
     
  4. Pericles
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    Pericles Senior Member

    The computer is the new pencil. :p
     
  5. Dean Smith

    Dean Smith Previous Member

    yes well this is true
    you see people who have attended Westlawn and so on, they have some math/ physics background

    But there it may stop
    They may have no talent as artists, say like Hereshoff, they may feel no Empathy with the living moving entity, THE YACHT.
    In my opinion, this is one of the only dissaplines that demands that at least you can , either, sail, drive a boat, know La Mer and so on before you put the vessel onto paper
    If you were a civil engineer, say, then things would be just black and white, figures, more or less. After all none of us ever sailed a bridge
     
  6. ekamarine
    Joined: Nov 2008
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    ekamarine Junior Member

    That's a pure fact! :)
     
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  7. Dean Smith

    Dean Smith Previous Member

    Simply, you must draw the Major lines the old way before you stick it to CAD
    I dunno what you do AD hOC but this is what designers/ NA,s do
    A pc, puter can never substitute for artistist flair, at least as far as yacht design goes
     
  8. ekamarine
    Joined: Nov 2008
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    ekamarine Junior Member

    Well, that's their pathetic point of view. One designer even said to me that I should not design because I am a naval architect, I should only take their designs and do the engineering. Guess what? This guy is actually an interior architect who started designing yachts some years ago.
     
  9. Dean Smith

    Dean Smith Previous Member

    You are a Turk?
    You write not as such
    where in Tr are you?
    If I may ask, which town are you located, I know Tr reasonably well
     
  10. Alik
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    Alik Senior Member

    Term 'Naval Architect' includes the word 'architect' that stresses creative component of profession. But we do not need to explain these basics to such dummy 'designers', just 'F.ck You' will be enough answer for them :D So do I.
     
  11. Ad Hoc
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    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    But this is true of any discipline. However, more so in naval architecture, as going to sea, in some form or another is a must as an apprenticeship of sorts. One needs to understand the mechanisms involved and it influences to make ‘something’ work. But, it is just ONE “tool” of knowledge that the naval architect must draw upon when designing, just not THE only one. Design is a multidisciplinary process….just as the design of a boat is greater than the sum of it individual parts.

    And that is where your understanding is incorrect.

    A bridge designer needs to know what type of bridge, what soil will the foundations be laid on, what loadings on the bridge, cars, people, trucks etc??...then having established the SOR, the civil engineer needs to know the materials s/he is designing with. Again, this requires and understanding of the subject matter. Since no point using rubber material for a bridge. If the civil engineer had no knowledge of rubber and its elasticity compared to other materials such as aluminium or steel, nor an understanding of the fatigue etc etc..the result is the same as trial by error.

    I use whatever tool is available to get the job done. Paper, pencil, CAD…makes no difference. What is required to get the job done is more important…and of course how much the client is willing to pay influences this process.
     
  12. ekamarine
    Joined: Nov 2008
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    ekamarine Junior Member

    Yes, I am a Turk and live in south of Turkey, Antalya city.
     
  13. Dean Smith

    Dean Smith Previous Member

    Ah tax free zone
    I went there, I met yards who wanted to build for me, Alas, one day they say 100, next they say--I said 120, I gave up
    But, I loved Tr and the people you have a great Seafaring tradition and we fought you at Gallipoli :))
     
  14. ekamarine
    Joined: Nov 2008
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    ekamarine Junior Member

    Yes, free trade zone and unfortunately, there are some guys in this market who have no idea about yacht building. For the works that they do, there are some scenarios; they can never deliver the boat with the planed cost and start asking for some extra money at the last stages of production or they deliver a sh.t boat to customer or the contract goes to court. In any way, they create a bad reputation for boat building in Antalya region.
     

  15. Dean Smith

    Dean Smith Previous Member

    we can talk email me please
     
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