Can Chinese Junk actually circumnavigate?

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by Wellydeckhand, Apr 26, 2006.

  1. Fernao
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    Fernao Junior Member

    Ari:

    Many thanks for the links. i was curious if you knew of any designers so I could get some plans to build one of these myself.

    Thanks,

    Fernao
     
  2. MastMonkey
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    MastMonkey Junior Member

    Fernao,

    Michael Kasten has designed a couple Phinisi, even working with the Bugis people to build one of them.

    http://www.kastenmarine.com/phinisi_homecoming.htm

    Also, if you are interested in the design and construction of traditional Junks, there is a book called "Sail and Sweep: The history and Development of the Chines Junk," written by GRG Worcester.

    http://www.amazon.com/Sail-sweep-China-development-illustrated/dp/B0006D8HYM

    It is out of print but can be found used. He documents the design and construction of several different junk types from river craft to coastal traders and also I believe a ship of war. He has detailed drawings of the design and descriptions and drawings of the construction.
     
  3. Pericles
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    Pericles Senior Member

    Perhaps these pages can help. Scroll down a little to view Brian Platt's article about the Chinese Sail. There is also good information about Junks.

    http://www.thecheappages.com/

    Regards,

    P.
     
  4. Fernao
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    Fernao Junior Member

    MastMonkey:

    I noticed that there was a lot of standing rigging on the phinisi.... I think that I will look in to Kasten's site to see if the junk boats have junk rigs as well.

    The reason that I say this is that Junk rigs can be set up with unstayed masts and solo sailed. :)

    Thanks,

    Fernao
     
  5. MastMonkey
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    MastMonkey Junior Member

    Fernao,

    Michael Kasten has developed several plans using the junk rig and is an advocate of it:

    http://www.kastenmarine.com/junk_rig.htm

    The phinisi in the photos is gaff rigged and so yes, it has quite a bit of rigging, standing and running. Junk rigs are almost always designed to use a freestanding mast, though occasionally you will see some designed with a fore stay. After encountering European sailing craft some boat builder in Asia began to experiment with additional stays and shrouds, but the traditional way has been a free standing mast.

    Another boat design you may want to research is the Lorcha. This was a European style hull fitted with junk rig sails. The served as anti-pirate ships and were very effective.
     
  6. Pericles
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    Pericles Senior Member

  7. BATAAN
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    BATAAN Senior Member

    Here's a Chinese lug main on a modified SPRAY that works very well. Hasn't circumnavigated but has many hard ocean miles.
     

    Attached Files:

  8. Lister

    Lister Previous Member

    Who knows what the Chinese did centuries ago.
    They are an amazing culture with one of the most ancient history.
    I will be not surprise if they circumnavigated and find all the land we "discovered" and "conquered" many century after.
    As for the rigging, it is very efficient, ans easy to repair. The secret is to rely on a net between the batten, then the canvas panel or leaves panel on top. That way a sail panel can be torn by the wind, salt and sun, the whole sail still effective.
    Lister
     
  9. Pericles
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    Pericles Senior Member

    From Lister.

    "Who knows what the Chinese did centuries ago?"

    Is this a rhetorical question?

    The Chinese know what the Chinese did centuries ago and you can too, if you read the data.
     
  10. Lister

    Lister Previous Member

    You tell me: read the data's, that it's ? You sure?
    The data's are just that: data's from human. And the data's are not all here.
    So I repeat: Who knows what the Chinese did centuries ago?"
    But it can be also a rhetorical question taken as a challenge.
    The challenge will be to prove that the chain of data's was never broken.
    Can you?
    Lister
     
  11. Pericles
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    Pericles Senior Member

    The answer still is, the Chinese know what the Chinese did. ;) Do you question American history in the same manner? Should I ask if you doubt the history of Lubec Maine? I had a brief glance at the history of the place and it seems a nice place. I would guess the townsfolk have recorded the significant events accurately for the public record, but based upon your last response, is there something more esoteric to know:?: Apart from the gold from seawater scam that is. :)

    In 1886, there were two shipyards, three boatbuilders and three sailmakers. What can you tell us about them please? Are any still operating and what types of boats were built in Lubec. Boats in all their glory are the subjects that interest us at this forum.
     
  12. Lister

    Lister Previous Member

    You are quite an aggressive chap.
    No need to lecture me. Its counterproductive to jump on your soap box and jump at my throat.
    But you signature should have warned me :p
    Lubec, which you know zip about but through Goggle, is not in China.
    So back to the topic:
    Did you had sailed on a Chinese Junk with sails made of leaves?
    Good night
    Lister
     
  13. Pericles
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    Pericles Senior Member

  14. MastMonkey
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    MastMonkey Junior Member

    One other thing you may be interested in:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princess_Taiping_(sailing_vessel)

    The Princess Taiping was a replica of Zhe Heng's ships, supposedly the admiral that commanded the Chinese circumnavigation fleet. Though I do not believe Gavin Menzies' assertion that they circumnavigated and find his "research" dubious, it is quite possible that ventured further than currently acknowledged. The Princess Taiping was built to cross the Pacific and make the return journey, testing the theory that ships made it to the west coast of the Americas. They more or less accomplished this, prior to being sunk off the coast of Taiwan while returning home.

    By the way, does anyone know why the rudder is off center. I have never noticed this before in other Junk models or replicas I have seen. How would it affect the boats handling?
     

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  15. Lister

    Lister Previous Member

    Pericles, I don't feel your attitude is interesting for me.
    I will keep my posts for people who are willing to share, not to play clever.
    Lister
     
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