Can a kayak be designed not to weathercock or leecock?

I saw one source that said something that wasn't clear to me, I guess implying that flow next to the bow is mostly laminar, but that flow separation occurs by the time you get to the back of the boat.
You can use Bernoulli or Nusselt to calculate at what distance from the leading edge the separation, and turbulent flow, start. It depends mainly on density of fluid, distance from leading edge, shape of surface, and surface roughness. However, because a boat operates at the interface of two fluids of very different density, there is wave formation which really complicates it. There are tables based on experimental results that give reasonably accurate estimates.
 
Alas, I'm not an engineer, let alone a naval architect, or whatever you need to be to make those calculations.

But Physics of Paddling https://spearers.com.au/physics.html says that laminar flow starts to break down after about 3 cm on a kayak. So I guess we should assume that flow separation occurs. (Though that page seems to be for flat water racing, I think.)

But as far as how much picking a kayak that doesn't weathercock or leecock affects drag, I'm not sure how to plug that in to anything.

I may be making this too complicated. My Caribou doesn't respond to winds or waves much, except when the pitch frequency of the boat is in resonance to the wave frequency, which I hope to eliminate by getting a full length waterline. And my old SOF kayak didn't either, with the same proviso. I think that was because they were both fairly low profile boats, especially the SOF. Maybe that is all I really need to get reasonably good efficiency. That they should be low profile, at least at the ends, where the wind and waves have the greatest leverage. And, of course, be fairly thin and have a full length waterline.

Next to those things, maybe skegs and rudders are minor issues, in terms of performance.

And if I did decide I want a rudder, maybe that is fairly easy to add? I see there are "strap on rudder kits" for kayaks. Though maybe not for a custom boat as thin as I have in mind. As long as I could keep the rudder up so it wasn't in use, I could honestly say I have one, and perhaps satisfy trip leaders who insist they are needed for their trips.
 
How about Towing promising models behind a motorboat and using a scale to measure the pull required for your Target speed? You could start with your correctly loaded SOF and caribou plus any others from friends that might be willing to lend. At least that would give a relative comparison of where you're at, and maybe see the effects of wind and waves? Smaller scale models of promising designs that you build, could also be adjusted for the necessary proportions and tested using the same method.
 
Ah, but I never got around to learning how to build boats, and right now I don't have space to set up a wood shop (the landlord took his away). So experiments of this kind would be very expensive.

And compensating fluid flow (including water, air, foam and surface interactions) for scale goes beyond my knowledge.

I also don't have a motorboat. I have one power source: me.

But I don't need a perfectly optimal solution. I only need to keep up with other recreational kayakers. The only problem is, a lot of people in the DC area are very competitive, and have the money to spend on lots of gear, so their concept of "recreational" isn't always the same as most people.
 
Your kayak world seems to revolve around your term "efficiency" which you have yet to define.
You claim you are not a racer so what's your hang-up with efficiency.
Designing one characteristic into a kayak, or any boat, will result in a loss in some other characteristic(s).
So, it depends on what characteristics you want and what you're willing to give up in the compromise.

You are splitting hairs in your analysis attempts.
Test a variety of off-the-shelf, good quality, respected and proven designs and base you decision on that.

No offence, but if you think you are going to design a better kayak that meets all your needs you are sadly mistaken.
Sorry, but you're wasting your time.

Figure out what characteristics you need to meet your SOR, test and then shop accordingly.

Don't shoot the messenger.
 
Ah, but I never got around to learning how to build boats, and right now I don't have space to set up a wood shop (the landlord took his away). So experiments of this kind would be very expensive.

And compensating fluid flow (including water, air, foam and surface interactions) for scale goes beyond my knowledge.

I also don't have a motorboat. I have one power source: me.

But I don't need a perfectly optimal solution. I only need to keep up with other recreational kayakers. The only problem is, a lot of people in the DC area are very competitive, and have the money to spend on lots of gear, so their concept of "recreational" isn't always the same as most people.

All of this is confusing info. Someone searching for a faster and more efficient boat in order to keep up with the young and strong, but having little or no resources, the space needed, Etc , to accomplish it.. I don't see how calculations and Theory will help, for a boat that can't be built. My humble opinion for that particular situation is to use low cost alterations to whatever boats are in possession. Then measure their performance in some way to see if it has really been an improvement.

Maybe Tow testing can be done quickly on someone's existing vs. modified boats comparison with a low cost 2- 3 hour Marina rental using a motorized dinghy or jet ski. I've done similar things using my grandkids to steer the towed when necessary, and to move around on board as passengers to see what effect shifting around weight does.

Hope this helps, and good luck!
 
All of this is confusing info. Someone searching for a faster and more efficient boat in order to keep up with the young and strong, but having little or no resources, the space needed, Etc , to accomplish it.. I don't see how calculations and Theory will help, for a boat that can't be built. My humble opinion for that particular situation is to use low cost alterations to whatever boats are in possession. Then measure their performance in some way to see if it has really been an improvement.

Maybe Tow testing can be done quickly on someone's existing vs. modified boats comparison with a low cost 2- 3 hour Marina rental using a motorized dinghy or jet ski. I've done similar things using my grandkids to steer the towed when necessary, and to move around on board as passengers to see what effect shifting around weight does.

Hope this helps, and good luck!
There are already boats optimized for least amount of effort to go at the target speed. All race boats are designed on that premise. You are delusional to think you can design a better boat and keep up with the young athletes. If you were actually successful at that task, the young athtletes would copy the design and leave you in their wake. Further, kayak designs are already very sophisticated and are at a development point were only marginal gains can be obtained, but at a significant cost.
 
The Caribou is a good boat, quite good, actually. With adequate technique an appendage will not help. You can buy faster boats but more specialized boats have their own issues. An 18' boat has a higher potential hull speed than a similar 16' boat but will have more wetted surface. The extra 2' will only help if you are strong enough to keep up the max speed. E.G. My wife's 14' Osprey has less drag than my 17' Osprey at cruising speeds. I could paddle from A to B faster in the 17' boat, she could get from A to B faster in her 14' boat.
Your realistic choices short of a new performance boat or waking up 15 years younger are a training program focused on strength and technique and a carbon fiber paddle that matches your strength, style and boat.
 
This is drifting off topic. I was mostly just asking whether a boat designed not to weathercock or leecock was inherently inefficient, and how much of a difference it makes.

But,

1. I'm assuming I would pay someone to build me a boat, since I can't build it myself.

2. I am trying to learn from personal experience with other boats.

I've had a lot of boats over the years, since the early 1980s. The Caribou is a pretty nice boat (thinner than most commercial boats, fairly light, though the Kevlar version was lighter than my fiberglass boat, fairly low profile) - for someone about 80-100 pounds heavier than me. For my weight, I lose 7 or 8' of waterline length, so it effectively is a short boat, though the wind and higher waves have leverage against the whole length. And it (and my old SOF too) sometimes gets into a pitch /wave resonance situation, where it wastes a lot of energy pitching forwards and back, generating a lot of splashes. That means under some conditions it virtually comes to a stop, and can also be hard to control when paddling into oncoming shorebreak. (If I remember right, the problematical height was about 2.5' - 3'. Above and below that height, the resonance disappeared.) That probably wouldn't happen for someone in the right weight range. I could add 80-100 pounds of ballast - but I suspect that would make it pretty inefficient. Ballast is no substitute for body size & muscle mass.

Race boats can be very light and efficient, and often have full length waterlines. I haven't played with them enough to give them a fair shake. But I'm afraid they handle so differently, that I would have trouble adapting. As I said, in my brief trials, I found using the rudder hard (though I admit that might have been inexperience), and my reflexes were a bit slow to keep them level. I am very used to leaned turns, and that wasn't practical in those boats. Plus I was warned that efficiency at race speeds is different from efficiency at lower speeds. A few people in my clubs use racing boats - but they tend to paddle solo, or only with each other. They often have different boats for different weather conditions, and they train a lot. There is no way I could keep up with them under any conditions. I won't try.

Most of the club members on group trips only use commercially made fiberglass so called "high performance kayaks" - roughly 21-23" wide x 17'-20' long. The Caribou is in that range but is lighter than most (I may remember this wrong; I think it is about 21.75" x 17'8" and 43 or 44 lbs), and I believe would mostly have been fine if I was heavier. Most of them are Greenland style, because that is what tends to be commercial available. So most of their boats don't really have that long a waterline. And aren't super-efficient. But they generally pick boats designed for their weight range. I didn't understand how big a deal that was when I bought it. Plus I bought used to be cheap, which limited what I could find. A few of them have built their own, mostly SOF.

I did fairly well when I used the SOF, which was 19" wide x 19' long, though I lost even more of the waterline length (the builder was heavier than me; he had full waterline length), because it was supposedly designed to roll competitively, not for speed, and by someone a fair bit heavier than me - maybe 200-220 lbs?? (For him, the cockpit just barely cleared the surface. And it wouldn't have if even a little water got in.) But it's no longer in good enough shape to be safe. I think, based on that experience, a little narrower but otherwise similar boat which had a longer length waterline and a bit more volume would do well. (I also found that the little round cockpit made re-enter and rolls - the only practical way to re-enter it from the water - difficult. E.g., I never managed to put the spray skirt on while underwater, so I had to pump it out during re-enter and roll practice. Fortunately it was extremely easy to roll, so I never actually needed that at sea. Also, because it was so low volume, my legs had to be straight, and I couldn't get a forward bend.) But those modifications to its design are basically what I am looking for.

I think some of the DIY boats at
Yostwerks Kayak Building Manuals - Homebuilt kayaks by Thomas Yost (MIRROR SITE) http://yostwerks.org/
would work fairly well for me, if scaled down a bit for my size and weight. I haven't tried one, but they are close to what I am looking for. Except I don't want the tiny round cockpit, I need more space above the knees, and I don't want black. So, with the same mods, might some of the Cape Falcon boats. I assume those are relatively minor design changes in terms of performance.

3. 16" x 16' is very narrow and a little short by sea kayak standards. But I have tried someone else's SOF boat that was that size, and liked it as far as I could tell. If it had a full length waterline, it would effectively be longer than the boats I have used.

4. I like the SOF idea because they are light (mine was 30 lbs) - but I'm told a lightly built composite boat could be at least as light.
 
I talked yesterday to a kayaker (on a trip) who had a rudder. He said most rudders and some skegs are designed to be pushed up safely if you paddle onto shore or over localized shallow water. But that doesn't work if the boat has sideways drift. That can still break a skeg or rudder, even if it has such a mechanism.

I guess such a mechanism might not work well if you paddle backwards over shallow water. People do that to avoid obstacles, or to back there way out of a narrow channel that they can't turn around in. And of course, sometimes you initially try to paddle along a route whose current is stronger than you are, and are pushed backwards.

He almost never uses his rudder. Hadn't used it at all this year, and he paddles a lot. But he likes having it to deal with unusually severe conditions, like when paddling a long ways across high waves. I guess that means it is less likely to be damaged.

Perhaps one should practice using it once in a while even when not needed, so one remembers how to use it. But if you are careful during that practice, you hopefully won't damage it during that practice.

As I said, for a skeg to function well, the boat has to be designed to weathercock when it isn't down. Otherwise, the skeg would destabilize steering, rather than stabilize it. But it is different for a rudder. While that might be optimal for a rudder that is deployed all the time, but, since a rudder can pivot, it need not be true for a rudder that is only used when needed. So one could have a boat whose designed not to weathercock or leecock much much with winds or waves without the rudder, but which has a rudder to deal unusual conditions. That makes a certain amount of sense.

Also, he said that whether or not you need a skeg or rudder to join a given trip in that club is up to the individual trip leader.
 
As I said, for a skeg to function well, the boat has to be designed to weathercock when it isn't down. Otherwise, the skeg would destabilize steering, rather than stabilize it.
That is not what a skeg does. It is the same as a fixed rudder. The skeg does not destabilize steering, but makes it more stable.
 
I thought a skeg works by creating friction, which pulls the stern back behind you. But if you have a high wind, it prevents sideslip of the aft part of the boat, while the bow can still side slip. So you leecock. Which means such a boat must be designed to weathercock to prevent that leecocking.
 
I thought a skeg works by creating friction, which pulls the stern back behind you.
Skegs and rudders work by deflecting flow, which creates a reaction force.
But if you have a high wind, it prevents sideslip of the aft part of the boat, while the bow can still side slip. So you leecock. Which means such a boat must be designed to weathercock to prevent that leecocking.
In that case it is creating lateral resistance. There is no reason it must be designed to weathercock. Small boats can have their behavior changed significantly by the crew. Also, if this was a surfing kayak, forcing it to weathercock would be a disaster. Boats are designed for a purpose.
 
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