CAD - Freezer Boxes and the Dollar...

Hello...

Its Christmas - I am tired - I had to save dinner from my pissed on Gin and Tonic British wife who like most Britons - wants to boil everything into a paste that is only good for wallpapering..

Typed MEGA YACHT design into Google - the new YD magazine is brilliant - and came up with what I will say are a bunch of 'trimmed boxes'...

I am very guilty of box boats myself - but I look at some the the 'guck' that is being sold to millionaires these days and I wonder whether they should just spend their hard earned money on making a yacht out of an old oil tanker...

Whats going on...

Where did the romance and individuality go - when did the IKEA boat catch on and why - there is history and style in what we do - from NAVY to garage builder - has Bill Gates and the proprietors of AutoCad limited the minds of one of the oldest design professions - say us and the odd chair maker and the shoe cobbler who sings old German anthems...

I say - dig out your lead ducks, your planimeters, your Danish ship curves and splines and fight back...

That said - I do LOVE Wally Yachts...

LET THE HUMAN MIND FLY ITS FLAG AGAINST THE LIMITS OF CAD SOFTWARE AND ALL THE HARDWARE DRIVERS THAT LET THE MACHINES DO WHAT WE USED TO DO OURSELVES - with pencil and paper - control is still ours - I think...

Merry Christmas and stuff...

More important - I hope you all have a very good next year...

SH.

 

Thanks Sean,
And let me add my best wishes to one and all for a very good new year!!

 

Craftsmanship Swan Song

Well, Sean, that is a good question.

Middle Class dreams being what they are on the North American Continent (as well as all the rest of the continents) we have pretty much given over the romance of the hand held tool set to the folks about whom we complain so vigorously... The Illegal Alien.

Look around you. See just who is still holding the tools, fashioning the dreams, breathing new life into the modern wasteland that once was the pride of the working classes... the Craftsmen.

New tools brought new potential, new problems and new limitations. Where the profession once had to deal with paper cuts, we now deal with carpal tunnel syndrome and screwed-up lumbar alignment. Our bodies have grown softer and in many cases, so have our ideas, our hunger and our zest to take risks in the pursuit of dreams. As a people, we've handed over that dream potential to the same folks who wash our cars, mow our lawns and lay our bricks.

We slipped away from the process of honoring Craftsmen somewhere back in the last generation of workers. Emphasis on respect shifted to degree carrying professionals and flash in the pan performers, born with pretty features. As a result, workmanship suffered in the pursuit of glory and big cash rewards.

In Japan, they honor simple makers of hand plane blades as National Treasures. Individuals honored as such are given the respect of the people the same manner that we faun over movie stars and big shot attorneys. This fake process of respect has actually robbed us of the essence of what it means to honor someone for a beautifully completed work with his or her own hands.

I hope that someday it turns around before we relegate the efforts of all Craftsmen to the slag heap of society.

 

"We slipped away from the process of honoring Craftsmen somewhere back in the last generation of workers."

Perhaps we fled "craftsmen' when the labor cost got to $20.00 to $50.00 for really unskilled , mediocre work.

And yachting moved on from D/L ratios of 500 to 100 where weight (however pretty) is now a dirty word.

Perhaps the "paid hand" will return as the waves & waves of illegal aliens continue to overrun the land.

As 20,000,000 aliens rapidly becomes 50,000,000, rickshaws may return too.

FF

 

Perhaps the dilemma for you, Fred, lies in the fact that you've managed to criticize workers of a decent wage and those who would work for less in the same paragraph? If you feel you've paid too much, then refuse payment until you get what you seek. If you have ever paid less than these outrageous wages to a worker without a Green Card, then you are equally part of the problem which you lament.

Can you say with your straightest face, that you have never hired, in any capacity, an illegal alien to work on one of your two homes? How about your company or how about your daily comings and goings as you seek to follow your personal life? Truth is, you've been the beneficiary of low and even sub-standard wages on thousands of occasions and yet you find the time to complain about beng overrun. You lose your right to complain about that which you find so pragmatically beneficial.

This comes across like a guy who rants about the neighborhood floozy in the light of day and then quietly visits her home after dark.

 

Apologies to Sean for the briefest foray into hijack mode on the thread.

Like many of us, Sean has observed that he would like to see the return of design efforts with paper and pencil as opposed to computers and software.

What I get from Sean's observation is that he misses inspired design and not another, run o' the mill offering from another run o' the mill design firm that may have once produced boats that were as unique as the humans that drew them.

Let's face it, the boat design discipline is a unique blend of art and science that doesn't come along too often in a gifted manner in one individual. This unique person has to have the right blend of scientific/mathematical savvy, mechanical aptitude, artitistic flare and a grounded sense of being able to intuit, if you will, the needs and dreams of the client who stands before him, wanting a new boat.

The design tedium loop is a frequently argued topic in design schools where tomorrow's freshest design faces are being trained today. Even the brightest and most creative of our young designers are susceptible to following the trends in order to insure survival in a very, very tough field.

You'd think that a design school environment would be the place to take chances, spring for a wacky take on an assignment, push the boundaries, explore the complete potential, etc. Later, after he (or she) has been hired for that exhibited willingness to explore the potential in a design, the designer will be slowly squished into a corner of commercial and pragmatic obligations.

The result is that the forms produced by the designer will begin to take on the lines as described by the client along with the client's willingness to accept non-conformity with their new boat. It takes a ballsy dude to laugh-off the ridicule at the yacht club when he shows-up with a boat that is outside the accepted envelope.

Truth is... there just aren't that many of those ballsy types floating around out there.

 

Hummm, I am a hobbiest, taking a design course, and see part of the problem in the modern tools - it takes a lot longer to learn how to use AutoCAD, Rhino, MaxSurf to draw what you want, than it ever took to learn how to draw really fine pencil/ink drawings. At least the first time. I guess eventually the pay off is that you can re-use a lot in the next drawing. And that of course results in multiple similar designs...

And for the large boats, I wonder how many are bought by persons, vs a company they have set up, so they can use it once in a while, but rent it out most of the time to cover costs, and, of course, to gain the many tax advantages of having a company own the boat. Thus, they probably want to be sure there is some resale value, and indeed, there are too few people daring enough to own a 'unique' boat, and so it all tends to 'trimmed' tankers, with over glossed interiors.

But its not always so bad... but what it takes is some good marketing - selling the good, unique designs. There is nothing wrong about this, in fact, its called innovation. Maybe more of us should keep this in mind - that we might be brilliant designers, but without good marketing, we might find ourselvdes forced to address the status quo and never be really happy...

ramble, ramble, ramble.... sorry... Happy(er) New Year!

 

I think the problem is too many people wanting too much stuff in their boats. The only way to fit all the junk is to make a big, multi-layered box. It is pretty hard to make a box look like something else. I find most of the large yachts I see in the magazines are ugly as sin and most have absolutely no grace (picture a Trumpy going through the water for the opposite effect). Is this also due to all these yachts being charter boats? My boat has more stuff than yours, so I can charge more for a charter.

As for the tools, I still draw my preliminary designs by hand. I have run into problems with surfaces that didn't match what I had drawn by hand. I have been told it is because the CAD program can't generate that shape. That isn't progress to me and gets me highly frustrated! I guess we have to learn to live with it though as the CNC equipment isn't going away any time soon.

I won't comment on the wages/illegals stuff, it is a lot safer!

 

"Truth is, you've been the beneficiary of low and even sub-standard wages on thousands of occasions and yet you find the time to complain about beng overrun."

NOT by choice , since its hard to demand "PAPERS" from the entire staff of a roadside resturant.

Also its impossible to get a pound of Bacon from Swift or Armor , and know who beheaded the pig.

I hope that just as the "Green" Socalists have demanded packaging with "dolphin safe" on their tuna cans ,

Americans that believe in maintaining a country will demand a similar guarantee on products, "Illegal Allen Free".

FF

 

OK, Fred. My last comment on this and perhaps you'll observe the same.

I'm going to assume that you're a decently smart guy. You have mentioned specific companies who are known to use illegal workers in the pursuit of lower, competitive pricing structures for their products.

When you say "NOT by choice", regarding your use of low wage illegal alien workers.... I disagree. If you're smart enough to manage to acquire two houses for yourself, then you're smart enough to know when you are connected to the stream of labor that leads back to the base argument here. It takes little, to no, effort to reasonably "get it" that serious elements of our economy are being supported by the workers about whom you complain. By purchasing those affordable products and making use of that cheap labor economic position you are willingly going along for the ride whether you like it or not.

Ever stay in a motel on your way to and from Florida? That room was likely cleaned and made ready for your comfort by an illegal alien even though a smiling white guy worked the counter and took your money.

Ever eaten-out while on the road at your favorite resort community? Likely, the food was prepped, the kitchen maintained and the dishes cleaned by your favorite brown people working their butts off in the back room for your pleasure.

You simply want the comfortable arrogance of your bigotry without coupling it to the responsibility of your personal actions. Your desire to do stuff on the cheap is what drives this reality, Fred. Those folks come here because of the jobs. Jobs that you won't do because the work is too menial and too low paying. Jobs that your kids won't do, either.

Your demand for that service and those products at an affordable price creates the jobs. It's just that simple. If you were to agree to start paying a much higher, respectable wage structure for the services and goods you are getting, then you could have the expectation that the outfit you hire would not be hiring illegal aliens to stay competitive. If you were to perform more of these low level tasks on your own, then you wouldn't be creating a demand for the workers who are doing those things and there wouldn't be a job for these folks from Central America and they'd all go back home.

Oh, you're using illegal alien services alright.. and you know it. Unless, of course, you'd like us to believe that you aren't smart enough to understand the complexities of this country and the realities of keeping a labor oriented business afloat. So, Fred, which is it?

I grew-up in a household where my Junior High principal father wouldn't entertain whining at any level unless you had a better idea as a counter proposal. Want something to be different? Then get off your butt and produce that which will make things nicer by your expectations. Put yourself on the line for the process of change and quit carping about stuff in which you are deeply involved as a consumer. Otherwise, be quiet and keep tooling around in your self-contained, above it all, comfort bubble.

 

You ought to get off your high horse. Just because your parent wouldn't put up with any whining from you doesn't mean you should go around lecturing others. The statement that Americans won't do the job because it's menial and low paying is groundless BS. Prove it. The fact is that there are millions of illegal aliens here, illegally working at jobs for what should be and many times are illegal wages and under illegal conditions. Like he said "Not by choice". If the product or business was listed as "Illegal Alien Free" lots of people would pay the higher price. But there is no choice. Illegal aliens are let in and overlooked not so the masses can pay less, but so the few can profit more. Which they then proceed to spend on crappy looking mega-yachts. Sam

 

He wants proof

Tell ya' what Sam, take a drive out to the middle of the nation and take a look at who is working in the slaughterhouses that make your bacon and chops and chicken and steaks...

Count the heads that leave at each shift and tell me what percentage of the employees are white folk who are downright proud to be standing in blood all day for nearly minimum wage. Go on, now, make the tally and let us all know what you find.

Now, go take a poll of all the landscape outfits in any large city near you. You know, the one's who mow the lawns, trim the bushes, remove the piles of crap laying around in middle class backyards. Yeah, those guys. Again, let us know how many white folk you find doing that work on a hot summer day at a ten and twelve-hour clip.

Ya want more proof? Look around at all the service workers in hotel and motel chains throughout the nation. Let us all know how many white folks you see doing those cruddy jobs compared to how many folks of color.

Get connected with the construction industry and look long and hard at just who is building the cities in which you live. Clue here... they are significantly populated by Hispanic tradesmen who are working their way up the ladder of success by starting at the bottom. You know, those crappy jobs like digging ditches, humping hod, stacking bricks, etc. I know this personally, because I shoot architectural photos for a living and see these guys everyday, busting their butts.

Can you keep up with me on this? Come on, now, don't get distracted just because you're getting thumped (to coin a trite and current phrase)

It's not high horse tactics, Sam, just plain old simple arithmetic. We (white folk) don't like to sink so low as to do menial labor when it comes to the choices of our jobs. If we did, there'd be no room for workers from other countries. Instead, we'd rather go to the unemployment office and stand around collecting paychecks for work not performed and then ***** at the Food Stamp office for the same reason.

Face it man. America has gotten lazy and fat on the good life. Now that someone is out-hustling us at what used to be our game, we have the temerity to get all huffy about it.

Apparently you are among the gang that feels putout by being out-hustled by someone who wants it more.

Alien Free products? Here's your calling, Bubba. Get it together on a local level, mount a campaign through the use of TV reporters who share in your bigotry and springboard the foolishness to the national level through FOX News and Rush Limbaugh. You'll be in the bigtime and easily the flavor of the month. Trouble is, once they've used you for their pleasure like a pretty kid in a prison, they'll discard your argument as, SO YESTERDAY.

What the H, Sam, it's worth the try to prove your point. Unfortunately, it will never change the simple math of the facts as I've laid them out for you above. White Folks Don't Like To Do Menial Labor. They do, however, like to complain about how their lives are being overrun by the Brown Horde who will do those jobs.

So, there's your perfect opportunity to hop on that high horse of yours and get it on. Speak to the masses with your message. See how far it takes you.

(way off this discussion, but soon to be playing in a theater near you... in less than 20 years, the Brown People of your nightmares will have accumulated enough political power and savvy to be able to change the official language of their State to Spanish, simply through the power of the vote. You may want to find a way to co-exist with them before they start their own Anti-Sam campaign and have you tossed back to the country of your family's origin. )

They're not going away, Sam.

Geez, even the President of the Republican's can't get that job done. Not even with a Republican House and Senate, the idea of sending these folks back to the place from which they came is entirely out of the question. Everytime it comes up, the Republican businessmen of this nation put a quick stop to any talk of deportation. The reason...? Profits my man, profits! You see how easily convictions can be subverted by profits?

Then again, you could always cecede, declare your personal independence and start the Republic of Sam with Alien Free everything. A seat at the UN, you know... you'd have the whole, diplomatic thing, going on there.

 

sorry I gotta chime in,,,,,,I have no problem with someone trying to better themselfs,,,but not at my expence,,dont come here and work for cash under the table ,,dont come here and say ,,we just do the jobs you dont want to do,,the truth is they are here illegally ,and work for cash at low wages to stay under the radar, they pay no taxes,,and the ones that do still work dirt cheap,,because they never had it so good ,what usually happens is the man gets a job,the women goes on welfare ,and section 8 housing,they come out ahead,,greedy employers love them,,they just shut down a multi million dollar houseng developer here in ohio(ryan or ryland)by deporting a ton of illigals, now my question to you Chris is how can a roofer or carpenter here,,who shold make 20 or 30 dollars an hr,compete with an illegal for 7 or eight dollares an hr?

 

Dear Fellows..
I am looking for a Yacths builder in HongKong with a high quality of works. I saw some in net but i am not sure if this yard is good. I have a 136Footer Motor Yacths, and we are planning to build early next year, but unfortunately we still not yet found a yard, can u help me with this fellows? or can you suggest or advised which yard is good for constructing this 136 Footer Motor yachts only in Hongkong. Thank U and Happy New Year to all

Regards
Felix-Arees

 

"Those folks come here because of the jobs. Jobs that you won't do because the work is too menial and too low paying. Jobs that your kids won't do, either."

It is true they flood in for JOBS , the legal immigrants of the past came here to become AMERICANS , citizens.
They took low paying jobs as thats all their skill set could get.
Although many of todays LEGAL immigrants have fine educations and become MD and computer workers.

The endless supply of unskilled illegals simply drives the price of labor down .
\ NO unskilled jobs in the US go begging from lack of workers , only from lack of wages they are willing to work for.

I am fully behind LEGAL immigration , of folks that wish to become US citizens , NOT the mass movement of 1/7 of Mexicos poor and unskilled , and wish to DEMAND instant parity (vote early and often) with legal citizens.

One political party sees these as ILLEGALS new fodder for their income confiscation and transfer system.

The lack of legal taxation of these workers has burdened the Skools , closed hospital emergency rooms and coats legal citizens far more than the wages "saved" by the use of this illegal labor.

If it were up to me , every employer would serve 30 days per illegal employee in the Greybar Hotel.

A better dream is Mexico would throw off its current ( 80 year) corruption , it is a rich country and should prosper if freed.

FF