C70600 Copper Nickel flake source

Discussion in 'Boatbuilding' started by nero, Jul 5, 2007.

  1. nero
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    nero Senior Member

    Does anyone have a US or Canadian supplier for Copper-Nickel flake? I want to mix it with epoxy for a bottomcoat. Will need 24 lbs.

    I have googled till my fingers cramped. Can not find anyone that has it. I can find copper flake, but not C70600 copper-nickel flake.

    Will need it soon since the first hull will finally be bottoms up for fairing and barrier coats.

    thanks in advance
     
  2. alan white
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    alan white Senior Member

    I might have some... hold on...

    I looked out in the shed but it was dark and I didn't see what I was looking for--- I put it there last week. Not sure what brand, had several gallons of copper epoxy additive--- weighs a ton. I'll look again in the daylight.
    If you give up on the copper nickel, and I have something else, I could make a good deal for you.
    Alan
     
  3. nero
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    nero Senior Member

    Thanks Alan. I may have to go with straight copper flake. It is frustrating to not be able to find a source for something. Makes me feel like I am back in france.

    Let me know if you find something.
     
  4. alan white
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    alan white Senior Member

    By later today, I'll know what I've got. If you have to go with a second choice, at least maybe you can save some money. I hesitate to venture a guess how much anything copper costs today. $3.50 a lb. salvage for clean copper in some yards. I brought in a small load of copper a few weeks back, old torn-out romex, and got more in salvage, plastic and all, than it cost new once upon a time.
    Check this thread tonight.

    Alan
     
  5. alan white
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    alan white Senior Member

    I have only 12 lbs of West System #425 additive, all copper I'm sure. It seems from a quick check online that it is no longer available (maybe 425A is however). Not enough to do your job, I'm afraid. I thought I had more.
    you need a gallon, sounds like.

    Alan
     
  6. nero
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    nero Senior Member

    Alan
    I need enough to cover 35 m2 or about 380 sq ft. At 6 lbs per gallon, I guestimate it will take 24 lbs.

    It seems I have kicked open a big research project. The more I surf and enquire, the more interesting this becomes. Metal powders is a big industry with lots of mfg. and the whole supply chain mess. Recieved and email from tech support. The man stated "It is well known that additions of Nickel, Tin, Zinc and even Bismuth have profound effects on microbial and marine growth when compared with pure copper."

    I have stumbled across some powder suppliers who have copper alloy powder with the above additives.

    Seems like I need to research this a lot more. Very curious to why copperpoxy mixes are not using alloy powder.

    Will post more later.
     
  7. alan white
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    alan white Senior Member

    No--- it's 6 lbs a quart, not a gallon! You need one gallon, I think.

    Alan
     
  8. nero
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    nero Senior Member

    http://www.epoxyproducts.com/copper4u.html

    They claim 3 - 6 lbs per gallon. Their powder is 41 microns. They say a gallon will cover 100 sq ft at 12 mill. (I have no experience)

    If I go with copper alloy powder, I will mix in as much copper powder as possible and still be able to smooth it out.

    Second find: http://www.intmetl.com/zebra_mussel.htm

    As the others have stated. Copper needs additives to work well as antifouling. My first desire is to use copper/nickel or other foil that is 1 mill thick. I have found a place with 6 mill. It is too thick and the cost was $2000 with shipping. And there is the problem of what to stick it to the hull with. The zebra muscle study also points out that sheeting is better than copperpoxy. The mixed reports on copperpoxie's effectiveness comes from the problem of epoxy shielding the copper particals. Water can not abraid the epoxy fast enought to keep up with the copper loss.

    So maybe I should step back and look for an adhesive that will bond epoxy and copper alloy foil? If I can get this done for less than $600 in materials, life will be wonderful again. smile

    Will post again when something materializes.
     
  9. alan white
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    alan white Senior Member

    What I've got is 6 lbs per quart, and I've got two quarts. This is West System #625. Maybe I have more. The stuff is as heavy as solid copper. It's meant to be mixed with epoxy (I think at 20% by volume).
     
  10. nero
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    nero Senior Member

    Alan,
    Thank you very much for your offer. I am only interested in copper nickel or copper zinc alloy.

    Cu is 8.2 kg/liter so you are correct that it should be 6lbs per quart as a mix ratio. I need to think more and not just surf for answeres.

    Have some leads on copper alloy powders. More to come.
     
  11. nero
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    nero Senior Member

    Finally, I have started to find suppliers of copper nickel powder.

    I have a quote for $16.16 per pound. Problem may be that it is has 2% of the powder is 150 micron particles. Will these 150 particles make streaks when I spread this over the hull?

    The mix rate per an old West System tech note is 80% by volume. So, I am looking at purchasing 110 lbs.

    Any comments?
     
  12. Pericles
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    Pericles Senior Member

  13. nero
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    nero Senior Member

    Thanks for the post Pericles!

    They do not seem to have a US distributor. Useful information on their site. Also interesting that they are using a waterbased adhesive system.

    If would seem that I have ordered a bit too much powder. By their calculations I have ordered twice the amount of powder needed.

    Interesting that they have choosen to use pure copper powder. Every research document I found, and one metal chemist claim that the addition of a second metal helps produce a much better antifouling. Also, ships seem to use copper nickel plumbing for anything having to do with sea water.

    Their marketing is a bit deceptive. They state that it is illegal for anyone to use a non authorized biocide for antifouling. This is true. What they fail to note is that copper powder and copper nickel powder as well as copperoxide powder are the authorized biocide. Their product includes the copper powder biocide. Mixing your own is perfectly legal ... at least under current US laws. ... I hope! smile
     
  14. Landlubber
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    Landlubber Senior Member

    I work in China, here they do a lot of metal cutting in the street. The vendors have piles of copper dust, it may be possible for you to do the same at your area, find a merchant that sells copper rod, pipe etc, and ask him to keep the copper dust for you, i can buy a big bag of it here for the cost of the weight only, as they recycle it back to the smelters.
    Might be helpful.
     

  15. Landlubber
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    Landlubber Senior Member

    On the above, you can aslo buy very fine s/s mess, that would be ideal to sieve the grains to the size required.
     
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