Building without plans

Discussion in 'Boatbuilding' started by gonzo, Feb 14, 2015.

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  1. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

    I think this thread which, I guess, started as a joke, it's getting too serious.
     
  2. Mr Efficiency
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    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    The argument is hopeless, but not serious. :p
     
  3. Mr Efficiency
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    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    Who was that woman who said she "loves a man with a plan" ?
     
  4. boatbuilder41
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    boatbuilder41 Senior Member

    I think this is why this is a great site... you can ask and get anyones honest opinion... as long as we can all agree to be open minded and accept. Others opinions... i believe it s how er all actually become more educated . I dont claim to be the best... or better than anyone at all... i joined thiz site to become a better builder . And i appreciate any input good or bad... most of the time im judt sittin in the background learning by keepin my mouth shut
     
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  5. SamSam
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    SamSam Senior Member

    I'm kind of surprised that some seem upset or offended by the idea of building without plans. I would think that, depending on the level of your skill and knowledge and the size of the project, it's not that big of a deal and is pretty common.

    It might help to define what 'without plans' means....maybe there were some sort of 'plans' years ago, but the boat or whatever has been built so many times they are more or less memorized and not consulted any more, and a variation can be made without more plans....or someone apprentices, never sees the plans, and can eventually build a perfectly fine boat having seen by example how it's done.

    Is a rough drawing to get proportions 'right', and maybe a few measured drawings to see if a 1 to 2 ratio looks better than a 1 to 3 ratio, but no detailed drawings or measurements or construction features...is that a 'plan'? I don't think so. Is a drawing on a napkin a plan, or some lines in the dirt? I don't think so.

    Plans help in most situations. If the project is too big and complex to remember all the details, or if a project involves multiple people, a team effort where some can plan but not build and some can build but not plan, or if you want an idea to be built exactly this way by someone on the other side of the world, or if there could be legal ramifications and blame can be assigned if there are problems with the product, or if it's so important that it must work 100% right from the first try.

    Then again following plans can turn out genuine PsOS, as can be evidenced by some of the cheaply built, badly engineered, unsafe pleasure boats cranked out by manufacturers around the world.

    I'm wondering if this noplanaphobia is linked to the notion some seem to have about an awesome 'mysteriousness' of boats, that years and years of experience and innate, genetic knowledge are required to learn the 'art' of boatbuilding, and that unless fit, finish and construction is pursued to the ninth level of perfectionist nirvana using only the finest materials available, calamity is inevitable and perishing at sea should be expected.
     
  6. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

    SamSam, I believe that in previous posts have already expressed some of the points that you have just outlined.
    If plan means a drawing on a paper, of course you can build a boat without a plan. If plan means the information necessary to describe an object, it is difficult to say that you can build without plan. A plan can be a drawing, a text, a photo, a sketch drawn in the sand or on the wall of a cave, or the boat that has made the neighbor.
    Moreover, it has also been said that depending on the subject, market and quality that is intended to achieve, it will be necessary or not to use plans.
    It has also been said that in many workshops working without plans but that the boss makes a great sketches so that carpenters to understand what to do and how to do.
    I also said I do not know why if one works without plans can be proud to do so. What merit does he have?
    In short, I think we are all saying the same thing. Then there are other connotations in this thread. For example, why I can not comment, though I have not lived the sublime experience of working without plans?
     
  7. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    TANSL you have repeatedly criticized people on many threads that called a drawing a plan. Seems like you change your opinion just to contradict others. I repeat. This thread is to exchange information on building without plans. Those that find no merit or interest, please don't hijack the thread with your opinions.
     
  8. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

    Dear Gonzo, I do not understand your frustration or why you insist on saying that I criticize or insult anyone. That's not true.
    In my previous posts I have made it quite clear my position and my oponiĆ³n about all this. What I have said is visible to everyone. Everyone can interpret as he wants and judge. Needless therefore you will misunderstand what I say to conclude that as I have no experience I can not comment or what I think is offensive to others. I'm sorry, Gonzo, but in this, you're wrong. Calm down and be a little more fair. As much as you repeat your arguments, these do not become truth.
    Warm regards.
     
  9. waikikin
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    waikikin Senior Member

    Often the Shipwright will do a sketch so the boss/manager can understand..
    I've built a couple of boats without plans but dinghy size, I had a fair idea of every detail in my GMF, so they turned out pretty ok.
    Plans are great, makes life easy when the details are decided down to positioning of deck gear, joinery........ so very often details are missing & it's up to the Shipwright to make the decisions, so in effect they are "designer" of parts.
    I'm not advocating that professional engineering in the modern world be thrown aside, but still there should be much respect given to the practical engineers that apply the trade skills in construction & fit out, I've seen the PE's rescued often....
    Once upon a time & not so long ago & still to a degree Design, stability & engineering was taught in Ship & Boatbuilding courses at tech, students with particular aptitude were encouraged to pursue further diploma in such & with Shipwright background highly regarded & sought after in survey authority employment.
    Jeff.
     

  10. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    I started this thread to exchange information about a type of building technique. Unfortunately, TANSL is once more acting like a stalking bad girlfriend. Doesn't matter where or what I post, he parsues me through Boatdesign to contradict me. Then, he agrees with someone that is saying the same I do. His obsession with me is becoming quite annoying.
     
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