Building without plans

Discussion in 'Boatbuilding' started by gonzo, Feb 14, 2015.

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  1. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    In post #40 you said "I leave this discussion because me, with no planes, do not know how to argue.". Let us have an exchange of experiences without hi-jacking my thread. If you want to start one of your own to explain your views go ahead. This thread is for people with experience or interest in the subject.
     
  2. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

    That was long ago, man. Now I do not remember that. I wait nervously counting those who say they have built without plans and to enjoy their experiences. It will be interesting. Thanks, Gonzo.
     
  3. Pericles
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    Pericles Senior Member

    Gonzo,

    You appear irritated by some of the responses to #1. I suggest it's because you used all the correct words, but not necessarily in the right order. ;) (It's a joke). Your original proposition did not resonate well because it was perhaps too sweeping a statement.

    Sometimes our thoughts come back to bite us on the bum. I've had many opportunities to regret the occasions I put pen to paper when I should not have pressed "submit reply". Now it's least said, soonest mended. Harmony is more useful than splitting hairs. We're not here for a long time, so we may as well be here for a good time.
     
  4. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    I am irritated by people who claim to have no experience on something, but insist on criticizing those who do. I do not regret starting this thread. It is to exchange experiences. If you don't have any to share, go spend time in a different thread instead of this one. I am an experienced shipwright trained in traditional and modern methods. This thread is about ancient methods. If you and TANSL don't like it, stay away.
     
  5. Easy Rider
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    Easy Rider Senior Member

    Building w/o plans has great benefits to those inclined. It's more fun and adventurous. Much boat and airplane building is mostly for fun. I've seen many a beautiful airplane built basically for fun and satisfaction. Frequently the aforementioned airplane is flown once or twice, sold and then another one is started.

    I've enjoyed building carports lately. Any plans and how to do it stuff came completely out of my head … and it was fun. I probably overbuilt at times but I think my efforts will stand the test of time. My latest was a big metal carport extension. A wood frame and metal roofing. May I proudly present …..
    The first two pics are of an extension of two animal barns/sheds. The rafters are mounted w hinges to the original shed so can adjust height. The two posts in the second pic were temporary.
    The 3rd pic is an extension of a 24' X 37' metal carport and it's not attached to the metal carport.
    They will serve me well and the satisfaction was greater because I built w/o plans. More fun too.
     

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  6. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

    Gonzo, I do not criticize your experience, if you have it. What I say is that it seems a nonsense to build boats without plans. Your experience, whatever, I do not know what can be, seems very respectable, though I seem useless. Again I ask you, please, do not say that I have said or done something, if not true.
    I need not ask permission but I wish you allowed me to intervene in the threads I want. I have the right, experienced or not, to say my opinions. Thank you for your kindness. Can I continue, right?
    What would you think if I impede you to write about some issues ?. Let's be tolerant and patient with others, my friend.
    Easy Rider, nice job, would you go sailing with that "thing" ?. Gonzo, imo, is talking about building boats without plans.
     
  7. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Many thousands of boats have been built without plans, but this isn't for the faint of heart. In the extreme majority of cases, the boat is built by a master builder, that has many boats to his credit, so he's not actually building without plans, as he has them in his head and an idea of the general scantlings employed in a boat of this scale.

    The same is true of the sheds, carports and other structures some have mentioned, though again, typically with someone that has a clue about how things need go together. In the real world, most of these structures wouldn't pass inspection, if push came to shove, which I recently ran into on a friends house in the mountains. I built her a deck last year, replacing the joke that was already there. The neighbor is a butthead and called Zone and Ordinance on her, who sent a letter suggesting she needed a permit and a set of plans and two inspections (foundation and framing).

    I called them up and asked they come out and have a look. The inspector was a nice guy and appreciated the 18" deep footers, instead of the 12" the code required and the 12" on center joists, neatly resting in the appropriate hangers. I also reminded him I just made repairs to an existing deck, so he ignored the complaint and moved on. This isn't usually the case, as most don't comply with minimum code and they get caught. This doesn't mean it will not stand for 50 years, just that some portion of the code isn't followed. My deck is bullet proof and he took one look and realized it too, which is a saving grace if working outside the requirements of your area. Mostly, they just want the permit funds, as the inspectors generally don't look very hard, unless something is odd or weird looking, at which point they want to see plans, signed off on, so they have a piece of paper to wipe their butts on.
     
  8. Mr Efficiency
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    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    That's it in a nutshell, the plans are in their head.
     
  9. Pericles
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    Pericles Senior Member

    Gonzo,

    You wrote that you are irritated by people who claim to have no experience on something, but insist on criticizing those who do. Where & when in this thread did I personally claim that I do not have experience about building things without paper plans. Just a few numbers marked on the wall. I wrote about building a very complex bed for my eldest son with lumber I had lying around & using my mind's eye.

    I emulated PAR's experience when 10 years ago when I build decking by just pacing out the land with my boots. I suspect most people at this forum have used scraps of wood or what have you, to make something or other. My youngest son & I built a large brick garage 2 years ago to built a Bateau.com Lobster Boat 26. No plans at all. We incorporated a front door that we changed out of our main house & a very large window that was surplus to requirements when we extended the back of the house 3 years ago. The size was dictated by site conditions & the room necessary to construct the LB 26.

    Of course I could build a boat by eye; I knocked up a couple in my teens. They weren't great lookers, but they floated. However, as PAR said, "...the boat is built by a master builder, that has many boats to his credit, so he's not actually building without plans, as he has them in his head and an idea of the general scantlings employed in a boat of this scale". Does that sounds like Buddy Cannady and Sonny Briggs?

    I do not claim to be a master builder. I am a practical person, good with my hands & an ability to think things through like most people here. You asked the question #1. At that time, I thought it seemed an odd question to ask & I joined in. IIRC, I mentioned my admiration for the Omani boatbuilders art & no one here has denigrated artisans who build vernacular boats, based on local needs, construction materials and reflecting local traditions.

    You have had a number of responses, some of which have irritated you, however telling those who don't wholeheartedly agree with you to go away, is just another incentive for us to stay. Why not leave it at that?
     
  10. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    I think that building knowledge and experience is different from having plans. The process is more holistic. Modern design relies heavily on FEA, which focuses on breaking down a structure into small sections.
     
  11. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

    I think I am not able to understand what you say because, for me, it makes no sense. Therefore, if you can develop your theory a bit, it would be helpful.
    Hardly any designer is using FEA in their projects. I mean any design a NA/Naval Engineer is qualified to design. Of course the structure of some very special projects are usually analyzed by the method of finite elements or other methods. But one can not say: "Modern design relies heavily on FEA"
    Furthermore, the FEA is not "breaking down a structure into small sections" but assimilate the structure to small elements joined together to form an assembly.
     
  12. boatbuilder41
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    boatbuilder41 Senior Member

    I build without plans all the time.... after all ....its just what i call custom boat building... of course you have to have a vision in your mind what you want. Many times have i put up a bow stem and pulled strings. And put up makrshift bulkheads only to help get a vision of. What i wanted. . I have walked around boats for hours beforr figiring out where i want to cut my sheet line.... never knowing if im gonna cut it off and put a stern or if im gonna add 4 or 6 foot yo it before i. Put a stern .... maybe a swim platform ??? Maybe a inverted stern.... or maybe a lafitte style stern with a overhang of 2 foot... maybe three foot... hell... i just will figure it out when i get there....lol....... hell... i mighy just move that bulkhead and mount a outboard motor in the bow and just move yhe tank to the *** end to compensate for the added outboard motor weight in the bow... ... hell... i just figure it out when i get to that poiny..... i do it every single day..... ITS EHAT SOME PEOPLE CALL "" CUSTOM BOAT BUILDING ""
     
  13. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    That makes sense. You look at it, think for a while, and build it.
     
  14. Mr Efficiency
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    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    Sounds more like haphazard building to me, it would be a strange paying customer that would accept any variation that just happened to appear, because it was a whim on the day. But, if they want to grant you that "artistic" licence, they will just have to live with whatever comes of it ! "Trust me, I'm a no-plan boat-builder". Even politicians profess to be working to a plan, even if they are not :rolleyes:
     

  15. boatbuilder41
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    boatbuilder41 Senior Member

    Lol... i guess no matter how you look at it... its a plan... whan a person decides that he wants to build a boat...... i guess you can say that he had a "Plan". ...
     
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