Building New Bruce Roberts Euro2600...

Discussion in 'Metal Boat Building' started by EURO2600, Feb 12, 2010.

  1. EURO2600
    Joined: Feb 2010
    Posts: 4
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Brazil

    EURO2600 New Member

    I just bought the full cutting plans for the Euro 2600 from Bruce Roberts...

    http://www.bruceroberts.com/public/HTML/EURO26.htm

    I have never built a boat before so I am sure this will be another challenge of my life... I allways loved the impossible. However I do not like to make huge mistakes I cannot go back or cause I am not prepared for what is comming... Also let me say I am not cash loaded...

    So first I would like to know some feedback from anyone that have built a Bruce Roberts Motoryacht. If you have anything on the Euro 2200 to 2600 line that will be even greater.

    I will not buy the kit but send the parts for cutting...

    So here some questions...

    I am planning to hire a staff for 2 welder and 2 helpers. Also hire and nautical engineer to overlook the assembly...

    1) how long do you realistic think it will take (total men hours) for the basic welding ?? and the full project ?

    Do you think I am crazy ? Ok I know the answer... so let us go forward..

    2) What do you think is best primer coating material for steel ? and for aluminum ? How about electrostatic powder coating .. what do you think ?

    3) Do you have any crazy estimate on how much money will I spend considering everything needed, besides the steel, welding, painting, furniture, glasses and engine (all of them I have already an estimate ?

    Any other warning, advise or whatever pls go ahead...


    Tks...
     
  2. dick
    Joined: Aug 2008
    Posts: 18
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Australia

    dick Junior Member

    I have finished Euro 1000 to fit out stage basic construction took close to 1000 hrs by a profesional boatbuilder at my workshop second fitout and some basic timber work another 1000hrs and there still plenty to go,get the plates re nested blasted primed and cut locally and its half the price of buying the kit.
     
  3. Wynand N
    Joined: Oct 2004
    Posts: 1,260
    Likes: 148, Points: 73, Legacy Rep: 1806
    Location: South Africa

    Wynand N Retired Steelboatbuilder

    Whatever hours you arrived at - a least add half to that as a starting point, more better.

    Cost: That's gonna be a long building time and prices you now have, will escalate dramatically over that period. For example; I had prices for steel mid December and promises were given that no increase in sight for at least 4 - 5 months. Mid January price up by 18%, again a few weeks later and another and by end May, price went up by 48%!
    So had other materials and equipment also gone up since the costing of the boat and contract figures:(

    Unforeseen factors; In my case again, the goon government in my country ****** up with affirmative action policies resulting in poor management and maintenance which they acknowledged later that was the cause for us nearly loosing the electrical grid. Had to do with minus 5 hour electricity working day for quite a stretch.

    Logistics: Manufacturer of some equipment had a problem with its plant resulting in a three month delay which stopped worked around this item which again halted other work to follow...etc etc.

    People; If you loose a key person, it is a mayor problem reflecting on progress negatively. Takes time to get a suitable replacement and then you still have a learning curve for him to get things on even keel again.

    And there are more....
     
  4. ecflyer
    Joined: Jan 2009
    Posts: 81
    Likes: 4, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 72
    Location: Green Bay, Wisconsin

    ecflyer Junior Member

    Sherwin-williams is the largest paint mfg in the world. Can you purchase their products at your location? If so, the absolute best paint proceedure is to not use any primer. Shot blast the steel and paint immediately (hours not days) with Sherwin-Williams 646 epoxy. This is especially great below the waterline. The professional steel boat blders all use this product here. I pay $45/gal for this paint verses Petit, Epifanes, Interlux @ $245/gal.

    Good boat building
    Earl
     
  5. KnottyBuoyz
    Joined: Jul 2006
    Posts: 829
    Likes: 56, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 685
    Location: Iroquois, Ontario

    KnottyBuoyz Provocateur & Raconteur

    We looked into building in steel a few years ago. A 36' trawler quickly costed itself out of our means. IIRC the price tag was closing in on $330,000 Cdn. We quickly had to reassess our needs and desires. If I were to hazard a guess an 80'er would cost (depending on level of fitout (workboat or yacht)) $1.5M +++ and that's if you pour a tremendous amount of your own sweat equity into it.

    I've personally seen quite a few unfinished steel projects sitting in the yards rusting away. Talking to a few builders they say if you can't finish it in 5 yrs you never will. There are a few exceptions that I've seen where projects approached 7 yrs before being finished but they're rare.

    If you've got some very deep pockets I'd say go for it!
     
  6. ecflyer
    Joined: Jan 2009
    Posts: 81
    Likes: 4, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 72
    Location: Green Bay, Wisconsin

    ecflyer Junior Member

    I agree on the time frame. I have been working on my wood build for 3yrs-8mos. I have recently ben getting the feeling that I must complete it soon or it will never get done. There are days I just don't feel like working on it. I have started the 13 month countdown to launch. I am starting to let some of the work subcontracted out to get it done in a total elapsed time frame of 4years-9months. I recently realized that it's too big of a project for one man to do it all himself. I sense myself loosing interest and a half completed boat has almost no value. Financially then, I must complete the project.

    Good boat building
    Earl
     
  7. Don D
    Joined: Aug 2012
    Posts: 1
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: turkey

    Don D New Member

    hey euro 2600 how far you've come with your project is a high intra interested in seeing how it goes when I even consider building a euro2600

    Do you know some sites where you ca see some finished euro2600
     
  8. WestVanHan
    Joined: Aug 2009
    Posts: 1,374
    Likes: 56, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 746
    Location: Vancouver

    WestVanHan Not a Senior Member

    I looked very briefly (15 minutes)into one of these years ago,it would take years and cost just under $2M...now...certainly more. I bought a 53' that has almost as much useable space for 1/4 the price, a fraction the running costs,and 1/3 the dockage.
    And FYI after that I saw one,and it doesn't look nearly as nice as the website artwork portrays.In fact was quite ugly.
    In a third world country builds are cheap,but at some point even there it may make sense to buy in this economic climate.

    You can buy a nice lightly used beautiful Sunseeker or Italian boat for less than that.

    84' Sunseeker,1800 hrs,it'll take years to sell it- asking $1.4 offer them $1.0.

    http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2000/Sunseeker-Manhattan-84-2328738/AEGEAN/Turkey

    Wisely invest the ~$1.3M difference in costs,and gains/interest will more than pay for any more fuel you burn.
     
  9. Wynand N
    Joined: Oct 2004
    Posts: 1,260
    Likes: 148, Points: 73, Legacy Rep: 1806
    Location: South Africa

    Wynand N Retired Steelboatbuilder

    I am currently under contract as an advisory consultant for a medium/large steel boat being build in Canada. The builder has vast experience of about 30 years as an expert wooden boat builder and this is his first steel boat.

    At the start of the build he estimated that the boat hull and deck will be build in a few month time and the boat on the water in about a years time give or take a month or so.
    When I questioned the time frame the builder said he has a crack crew which I believe is true, but their expertise lies with wood and not steel. It is foolish to think if you are an expert of one medium of construction material that another would be just as easy to work with....

    Nearly a year later and the hull just plated and welded and the deck plating being laid now. Even as a seasoned steel boat builder myself, I often got it wrong and had over runs on the set completion date - very easy to happen with custom boats of which all steel boats are indeed one off's.
    Easier to control completion dates for GRP units that are basically molded products from molds and simple to manage.

    Another misconception that it may be cheaper to build in a 3rd world country. Most labourers are unskilled (not so cheap anymore) and have to be supervised closely and repairs, rework is a daily occurrence that cost money and delay delivery dates that in turn bump the price well up over original contract price...:(
    True, you can buy a well sorted out boat well below construction costs and with the economic blues worldwide, big bargains are there for the taking, in short, it is a buyers markets out there. Take advantage of that:cool:
     
  10. WestVanHan
    Joined: Aug 2009
    Posts: 1,374
    Likes: 56, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 746
    Location: Vancouver

    WestVanHan Not a Senior Member

    Hey Wynand.. I was meaning a build in a third world country with an established company and crew.
    Starting a crew offshore is just plain crazy IMO and I know little about boatbuilding.

    Out of curiousity-and you may not want or be able to say-but what's the size and estimated final cost for that one you're working on?

    Thanks

    BTW I looked quickly-a Roberts 2600..for sale asking 2.5M euro since about 2004 IIRC.Built here in Vancouver.
    Claim with 2100hp a planing version would do 30 knots and I say no bloody way...95 tons.
     
  11. Wynand N
    Joined: Oct 2004
    Posts: 1,260
    Likes: 148, Points: 73, Legacy Rep: 1806
    Location: South Africa

    Wynand N Retired Steelboatbuilder

    Hi WestVanHan,

    I actually retired from boatbuilding for the last two years now and plan to stay that way:D

    The last boat I built was the one I mentioned in post#3. We had an overrun of about 5 months due to all the reasons mentioned and add to that an owner who wants somethings different than standard layout, which means mockups to see if all will fit (and altering again) before construction and time (and money) goes very fast...
    The last thing any professional builder wants is an overrun on completion date and sometimes it is for reasons you cannot control. The sad about such an issue is that the client get the impression that the builder wants to take him to the cleaners which is not true. It is a very embarrassing moment when it does happens and left one feeling like a crook in the client's view.

    As for cost of the said boat - completely confidential and a matter between builder and client.
    However, truth be spoken and I hate myself saying this, the client could have bought a superior and larger secondhand boat for less money he spent building his from scratch.
    And this raised the valid point you raised and I echoed in my last post - in the current poor economic climate worldwide, it makes sense to rather buy a secondhand boat than building one - and you do not have to wait to get it build and finished. With the financial squeeze on for many, the first to go is the yacht at a dock that cost money to keep and hence the market really flooded with used boats for sale.
    As said before, it is a buyers market and if you in the market for a boat, use the moment.
     
  12. WestVanHan
    Joined: Aug 2009
    Posts: 1,374
    Likes: 56, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 746
    Location: Vancouver

    WestVanHan Not a Senior Member

    I understand the confidentiality.

    BTW was just looking online,found a Sunseeker 84 MY in fine kit, asking $900k but will take offers- bet it's been for sale for years.
    So an offer of $750k might fly...

    Just under $4 M new IIRC,3 years ago these were still pulling $2M
     
  13. F.H.B.
    Joined: Dec 2009
    Posts: 27
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Utah for now

    F.H.B. Junior Member

    Quick reply. Don't have time at the moment to read the whole thread right now so someone may have already said this:
     
  14. voyager
    Joined: Apr 2013
    Posts: 1
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: istanbul

    voyager New Member


  15. troy2000
    Joined: Nov 2009
    Posts: 1,743
    Likes: 170, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 2078
    Location: California

    troy2000 Senior Member

    As a general rule, I'm not a big believer in blindly shopping by brand names. I remember one time when I was in a Turner's gun shop sorting through shooting vests, and settled on one with the features I wanted at a very good price -- ess than half what the similar Benelli-branded vests cost, and with a better pocket layout. One of the other customers stuck his nose in the air when I headed for the counter with it, and sneered, "you're buying that instead of the Benelli vest? You get what you pay for, you know." I replied, "you're right. And sometimes, what you pay for is a brand name."

    But back when I was doing residential construction for a living, I reached a point where I wouldn't use anything but Sherwin Williams paint, especially for spraying. It didn't cost any more per gallon than its name-brand competitors, but did a much better job of covering. Also, pre-straining five gallons of Sherwin Williams water-based paint before spraying usually left a spoonful or less of solids in the strainer bag -- whereas straining the competing brands sometimes gifted me with a wad half the size of my fist -- and straining a second time still gave me about the same amount of crud I got from Sherwin Williams first time around.

    Of course, that was way back when Moby Dick was a minnow and I was a general contractor. You have to keep paying attention, and I'm making no guarantees that Sherwin Williams hasn't gone down the toilet since then, like a few other brands I used to believe in.

    add: I've had the vest for several years now; it's holding up fine.
     
Loading...
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.