building new amas/floats from recycled beachcat hulls

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by trip the light fandango, Apr 23, 2019.

  1. trip the light fandango
    Joined: Apr 2018
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    Location: Rhyll Phillip Island Victoria Australia

    trip the light fandango Senior Member

    Weight has all sorts of issues so tortured ply would have been ideal with a couple of layers of mat. I'm pretty sure it was suggested before I started. It is a case of affordability , fibreglass familiarity, longevity wanting to recycle and pig headedness.

    H18 hulls are supposedly 45kgs when new ,mine were possibly closer to 60kgs 137lbs I think. The deck join / gunwales are heavy and thick.
    These new hulls are 21 1/2ft long with 1/3 more volume than H18 with quite strong cases for the dagger boards, I've read of Buccaneer floats being a similar weight, 220lbs/ 100kgs, the owner wasn't that thrilled though.
    I'll be taking pictures as I go. I was counting what I have so far as 8, 2 for each amas connection, I'm adding 1 more for each. It will horrify/ make sense with pictures .
    Overall it isn't very heavy compared to other trimarans, this boat will easily take your weight and we can ram a partially sunken container without sinking..ha..err. By the time its finished they will probably have found a vaccine so you're welcome.
    It is pretty light because the cabins are coffin sized and no other trimaran was prepared to make that compromise unless it was/ is a racing boat.
    An F22 is 1300lbs 590kgs empty, Crowther 25 Buccaneer 910kgs/2006lbs. An F25a is considered a cruiser if it weighs in over 1250kgs.

    The weight I am adding is the equivalent of an average height person, 80kgs 176 lbs.
    But to be honest I won't know the final weight until it is finished and weighed, if I can't sail faster than a light F25 with my hobie 18 rig I wont be surprised. I'll be more disappointed if I can't close haul well and its behaviour isn't seakindly, that is more important for how I plan to cruise.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2020
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  2. trip the light fandango
    Joined: Apr 2018
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    Location: Rhyll Phillip Island Victoria Australia

    trip the light fandango Senior Member

    A Crowther 23 international has come up for sale, it needs work, but less than what it will take me to get mine back in the water, by the time I've sorted it out the way I want it.

    If I could sell my Trem for a reasonable price I'd jump ship, but I don't think it is likely, a project for $1500.

    This is one of the pitfalls of having a project drag on/ underestimating the time it takes, some bargain may come up that suits your needs possibly better with less work.
    I've been trying to block it out with rationale such as , the Crowther won't point that well and also needs work and is an unknown, on the face of it pretty straight forward ,clean, paint, carby kit, new main sail soon.
    Because I've invested so much thought into the Trem, to drop the project and see it stored or scrapped would be self defeating, unless I just ignore it and move on.
    A trimaran is more elegant anyway.. the cat is doing my head in a little, and then there's that I possibly should give up on the nice but overweight new amas, I've spent months on and build longer tortured ply floats/amas.
     
  3. upchurchmr
    Joined: Feb 2011
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    Location: Ft. Worth, Tx, USA

    upchurchmr Senior Member

    Why do you think the crowther won't point?
    They were never in the US so I don't know much about them.

    If you are going to make new amas, then strip plank them.
    You can get better shape out of strip plank, if you find a design shape. IMHO.
    Won't take so much time if you plan to paint. Clear wood finish is what takes lots of time.

    Even less time is doing it like Bjorn Thomanson. Catalog of my kayaks | Björn Thomasson Design https://www.thomassondesign.com/en/catalog/my-kayaks
    He strips the entire hull with square edged strips, but does not glue them while stripping. Building hull and deck | Björn Thomasson Design https://www.thomassondesign.com/en/building/building-manual/hull-and-deck
    Only when stripping is complete does he work epoxy into the gaps. This makes stripping very quick.
    Due to the nature of square edged strips on a typical hull, there will be exposed gaps to take the epoxy.
    I did a trial, it worked well, but I would plan on painting the hull.

    I had also seen this done on a large power boat, but the gaps were intentionally made large. Haven't tried that. The report also claimed a very quick stripping time.

    I wish a Crowther 23 was available here for that price.
     
  4. trip the light fandango
    Joined: Apr 2018
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    Location: Rhyll Phillip Island Victoria Australia

    trip the light fandango Senior Member

    Thanks upchurchmr I'll look into it ,it does sound like a good system.
    All ideas appreciated.
    A Crowther 23 international has 14 ft long keels and a draught of 1ft 6 inches
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2020
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  5. Corley
    Joined: Oct 2009
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    Location: Melbourne, Australia

    Corley epoxy coated

    The temptation to give up strikes us all. There was a trimaran that came up recently in NSW at a very good price that I nearly jumped on but fortunately/unfortunately someone else got to it first. The interesting thing was the owner of the Burgess trimaran I was interested in Barry was the manufacturer of fibreglass Tremolino's in Australia. He was saying they built 3 or so of them from molds, possibly including your boat.
     
  6. trip the light fandango
    Joined: Apr 2018
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    trip the light fandango Senior Member

    Thanks Corley, I am happy with the Trem, the next issue is do you think for cruising and the shallow water /beaching that I plan to use the boat for , I would be better off building lighter tortured/compound curve amas than pursuing what I have.
    I'm at the point where the expensive glass matt, epoxy , quality paint and anti foul, ie the money end and I still have to build in the housings for the beams.
    I have 12 sheets of okoume marine ply..
    So far my recycled floats don't owe me much just a couple of lung fulls of Q cell [inert]dust that slipped past, a drum and 1/3 of polyester, 50 metres of 45 biax 180mm by 300g[?] and lots of time... they are unique and should last well as long as there is no not quite cured Qcell mixes in the fairing... which should have bubbled or feel soft/ shown up by now...? I learned that you should always mix some acetone when making small filler mixes to make sure the hardener mixes completely. I think they will weigh 110/115 kgs 253lbs. each complete.
    I now think the H18 hulls weighed close to 50 kgs 110lbs to start with, H16 18kgs, Maricat 12kgs , laminating resin 15kgs ,matt 10kgs, Qcell 5kgs then epoxy layers and paint.

    Should I just accept that the new Amas will be too heavy and start on a plywood /epoxy version, will extra weight make the boat less seaworthy?



    What would you folk do?
     
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  7. upchurchmr
    Joined: Feb 2011
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    upchurchmr Senior Member

    Yes you should start over.
    Model them on Tornado hulls.
    Proved to work well, won't be much heavier than the original H18 hulls, if you don't "improve" them.
    Plenty of flotation. I once estimated 2000# at the waterline - each? (Been a long time since I did that so I can't prove anything).
    For sure a lots more than a H18.
     
  8. Corley
    Joined: Oct 2009
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    Corley epoxy coated

    I'd build the new floats that Dick Newick included in his plans that you can buy for about 400USD from Pat Newick. You end up with a nice cohesive package that suits the boat and it looks amazing and have more volume.

    Another alternative is to buy plans for Kurt Hughes 23' daysailor and build the floats he has drawn. It includes beam scantlings and waterstay bulkhead layup it's just a simple straight beam which is easy to make. You would end up with floats that were about 200% buoyancy and beam attachment detail which is in the right ballpark for a trimaran of this size/weight. I wonder about Tornado floats in the application they were considered inadequate on the Trinado which was pretty light and low volume and they ended up building new and larger floats for the boat.

    I see that Kurt has put his 23' daysailor plans up to $900 USD now which is probably more than you might want to pitch into this project.
     
  9. peterbike
    Joined: Dec 2017
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    peterbike Junior Member

    Is 12 beams a mistake ??:eek:
     
  10. brendan gardam
    Joined: Feb 2020
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    Location: east gippsland australia

    brendan gardam Senior Member

    20200614_175532.jpg
     
  11. brendan gardam
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    Location: east gippsland australia

    brendan gardam Senior Member

    not mine. it has no keels . just daggerboards.
     
  12. brendan gardam
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    Location: east gippsland australia

    brendan gardam Senior Member

    Is the crowther in victoria? I might be interested if you're not. Are there any links to it?
     
  13. upchurchmr
    Joined: Feb 2011
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    upchurchmr Senior Member

    Corley,

    I had forgotten about Trinado.
    Good point about the Tornado hulls.
     
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  14. trip the light fandango
    Joined: Apr 2018
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    Location: Rhyll Phillip Island Victoria Australia

    trip the light fandango Senior Member

    A friend of a friend, I don't know whether the price would go up, it is rough and there is some bog falling out of some damage ,its covered in house paint and a few inches of cormorant poo but I haven't seen the cat up close . Also the mooring has to be bought as part of the deal.
    If your genuinely interested I 'll follow it up for you if I leave it and it hasn't sold. Yours looks great , old multi did track it down as the daggerboard conversion didn't he?
     
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  15. trip the light fandango
    Joined: Apr 2018
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    Location: Rhyll Phillip Island Victoria Australia

    trip the light fandango Senior Member

    4 beams with a full width canopy frame. yes a mistake.
     
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