building new amas/floats from recycled beachcat hulls

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by trip the light fandango, Apr 23, 2019.

  1. trip the light fandango
    Joined: Apr 2018
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    trip the light fandango Senior Member

    I made baffles to stop water sloshing up and down the lower bilge skins of the floats yesterday, I'll be reinforcing where they could punch into the Hobie 18 hulls just in case. I don't think I'll use water ballast but I will have a manual bilge pump that can transfer or bail, connected to all three hulls . Really long runs where a tack isn't necessary it would be tempting.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2019
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  2. trip the light fandango
    Joined: Apr 2018
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    Location: Rhyll Phillip Island Victoria Australia

    trip the light fandango Senior Member

    I have nearly finished the baffles, I just need to cut slots down the centre of each of them then glass while pulled /tied in, the same width as the outer skins to match the original H18 shape. I should be able to increase buoyancy forward as H16 naturally has more than H18. Reading Oldmulti's post on Buccaneer24 modifications[wow] was a little unsettling. Sticking to my original design criteria/statement of intentions- a safe fast strong cruiser that I can camp on.. seems a little dull by comparison. But money and time, experience and purpose are keypoints, it's taken a month to put in the baffles...ha There were 2 cheap buccaneers on Gumtree in need of resto's a couple of days ago.. I'm enjoying the work though ,no rush, just get the hours in when feasible ,just get there regularly. The missus has resigned herself to it [within reason..ha] and I think is showing no annoyance,..well that my dulled male or possibly deluded sensors can detect, much less of a slog. Note to self, must resist extending beams,..maybe one day.
     
  3. BlueBell
    Joined: May 2017
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    BlueBell Ahhhhh...

    Go Trip!!!
     
  4. trip the light fandango
    Joined: Apr 2018
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    Location: Rhyll Phillip Island Victoria Australia

    trip the light fandango Senior Member

    20191126_154222(1).jpg 20191210_151542.jpg

    Torturing old Hobie hulls with a bit of personal torture ,coveting someone else's broken dream...
    I cut the baffles down the middle and reglassed them so they won't have far to bend when glassed on to the H18 hulls. The other key to all this is don't get distracted and grab the time windows to work on it ..well one of the bunch of keys anyway, like enjoy the process, keep the dust and fumes out.
     
  5. trip the light fandango
    Joined: Apr 2018
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    Location: Rhyll Phillip Island Victoria Australia

    trip the light fandango Senior Member

    I screwed and glued the maricat stern sections on, then got a little distracted when laying up the case re enforcemnet so had a fair bit of grinding to do yesterday,...drats. I'm using micro balloons to build the join step as I laminate the hulls together. I laid a length of 150cm 45 diagonal biax first to build up strength and help bed the join and act as a new stringer. Will use a flock to act as hole fillers when the screws are removed. Hobie 16 bottoms are solid and H18 decks are thick and strong, neither have much strength in the hull sides, H18 are the weaker of the two in my examples . Strong equates to heavy so yes tortured ply hulls are looking preferable ..much lighter.. but where is the fun in that? sheesh. It's coming together.
     
  6. trip the light fandango
    Joined: Apr 2018
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    trip the light fandango Senior Member

    The maricat 'shoes' went on nicely, the 400g 45 biax 150cm width E glass is is tricky to wet out in the sun and is taking a fair bit of nerve not to panic ..ha. it is probably best suited to vacuum bagging.It also doesn't like corners as it is so thick, but it holds it shape really well..I confess to using my hands with two layers of gloves, you can squeeze this stuff and unroll it but it almost ends up too dry even though its well wetted out. With your reading glasses on..ha, you can see tiny bits of not completely saturated cloth, so going over it with a wet mix when its laid helps. It is going to be great for making brackets and fixings where it's say 6 layers thick and done in one shot..It takes a fair bit of sanding edges and Qcell /filler use when fairing for a second layer.
    You can see the brown ridges after sanding on the H18 hulls that show how the foam sandwich has delaminated, I'm adding patches with the biax where it's soft. I've been adding a layer of biax to the H18 hull then glueing and screwing to the new hull or 'shoe', then fairing and adding a 2nd layer to the join.
    I've been getting most of my ideas from others on the forum as far as design goes but take full responsibility for my interpretations, thank you all for your insights ideas and wealth of experience and preparedness to share information.
    I plan to use the maricat cross beam mounts [strengthened and formed] on the centre hull so they line up with the H18 cross beam mounts. I have a pair of H16 front beams.
    will use the original Trem beams corner castings[mine are good] and Hi6 posts[which have epoxied in aluminium tube with 60mm diam and 6mm thick walls] glassed into the H18 hulls.
    A few things have come up recently in the multi hull forum lately, like setting the amas/floats forward a bit, possibly slightly ahead of the centre hull.
    Increasing the beam by 2ft so that the original bracket sits over the new join with new support bases built 400mm further out along the beams from the original mounts. I'm beginning to think my H18 rudders extended a little may over power their castings and pins . But I could turn a dagger board into a make shift centre rudder by carrying something like a tiller... The extra loads and weights I am creating are making some of my fittings look too small. But I'm getting ahead of myself here and it's stopped raining and overcast and cool,. perfect weather for glassing...
    Hobie 18s are 180 kgs H16 145kgs.I'll weigh the floats when finished using W17 designers clever use of bathroom scales , they'll be up around 60kgs...well that would be nice... Now all I have to do is resist my version of all the other good ideas that keep coming up on OM's thread...nah bugger resisting it ,it's great fun. 20200104_134910.jpg 20200104_134851.jpg 20200104_134834.jpg 20200104_134910.jpg 70
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2020
  7. trip the light fandango
    Joined: Apr 2018
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    Location: Rhyll Phillip Island Victoria Australia

    trip the light fandango Senior Member

    20200108_172345.jpg
     

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  8. patzefran
    Joined: Feb 2011
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    patzefran patzefran

    How does that weight ?
     
  9. trip the light fandango
    Joined: Apr 2018
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    trip the light fandango Senior Member

    This system is working pretty well so far but the flock I used to fill the holes made by the roof screws didn't go off overnight. The resin changed colour when the catalyst was added, it must have absorbed some moisture in the bag in between mixes. Flock is finely chopped fibreglass that is quite heavy, I may need to pop it in an oven for a few minutes. When I fitted the hobie front shoe to the second hull it sat 2cm higher at the bow, it's because of the variable give in the H16 and depressions in the H18 hull walls, I should be able to make up the difference ...or ignore it.. otherwise they're even.
     
  10. trip the light fandango
    Joined: Apr 2018
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    trip the light fandango Senior Member

    The extra weight is really noticeable around the strengthened dagger board case, the added hulls add less than 20kgs , Hobie a little heavier than Maricat.
    I'll weigh them when the cross beam mounting points are complete, I'm expecting around 65 kgs each.. or more,.. fairly heavy but strong enough to beach and hit debris..is the theory. It's more for fast cruising than racing..and yes it is a bit of a worry. These H18 hulls were quite heavy before I started repairing them, they are dry.. as far as I know.
    An interesting issue that is coming up is how to set the height of the new floats.
    When I finished my first change to the centre hull the hobie 16 floats were left hopelessly high , this meant that in light airs I could sail with only the centre hull in the water. The new floats will add considerable weight and are far deeper. I'm going to improve the centre hull bow ,making it sharper and add water line but make it so as I can beach on a steep angle without too much snag.I am also going to lengthen her stern, although I am happy with how I added freeboard to the main hull, the entry and exit were not up to scratch I think,...it's really hard to do an original well made design justice...gulp...deep breath..ha.
    After a few years to think about it I have a new plan..but the centre hull will sit a little higher again...lots to think about.
    I'm not sure whether the idea of cruising and building/altering a boat to suit is more enjoyable than actually using it..for me.. The possibilities are endless particularly with the information available on this forum. I thought that a solid 6 weeks would complete these hulls, and it probably would, but who has 12 hour days to dedicate to a leisure activity? I get 2or 3 hour blocks 3 times on a good week. 6 months later I still have no idea when I'll finish, but it is enjoyable and satisfying.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2020
  11. trip the light fandango
    Joined: Apr 2018
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    Location: Rhyll Phillip Island Victoria Australia

    trip the light fandango Senior Member

    I had a good day on the boat today sanded, applied and sanded Qcell with hardly any pin holes left, and laid the biax on one side of both hulls on the joins..6 hours.
    There will be significant Q cell thickness faired over some spots on the join[ above the water line] , I'll lay a light matt over it when it's close to fair in case it thinks about popping off under load. The issue of how to keep weight down is best solved by injecting from the inside out drilled holes with an epoxy/flock mix. I think it's the best way to ensure the sandwich foam and glass skins are tied together. I attempted to work a polyester /flock mix from the outside in, I just checked and it didn't make it's way through. I'll drill the existing holes from the inside out just enough to feel the filler,then inject epoxy into each hole.

    There is something to be said for recycling old hulls, long lasting and because fibreglass is a woven fabric, if damaged, such as a soft spot/delam, it can be easily repaired[as long as the original job was good ]. I use a wok , a shallow plastic storage bin for wet outs , a milk shake container , some plastic scrapers, gloves are the main waste, after sanding..the dust, I don't use much sand paper, which frankly means less efficient use of time .
    This 150 biax will be perfect for fabricating the mounts for the cross beams..looking forward to it ..
    These hulls look really tall now, and powerful[a little heavy], which means side impact has a large surface to work. As suggested for trimarans by OM's thread there is more buoyancy forward now, more than H18, but there is a weight cost... 5 hours today and perfect weather so things are beginning to speed up. Working outside creates lots of issues, but upwind fumes/ dust are negligible if there is any breeze. And Gary Baigent can knock up a whole boat in a week, sheesh.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2020
  12. trip the light fandango
    Joined: Apr 2018
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    Location: Rhyll Phillip Island Victoria Australia

    trip the light fandango Senior Member

    Still going, if an H18 weighs 180kgs the hulls themselves must weigh more than Hobies stated 96lbs/43.5 kgs, unless the rest weighs 90kgs, cross beams ,mast, boom , stays, rudders , dagger boards, sail,tramps etc...hmm maybe,. Anyway I take a fair bit of solace from a picture of an early H18 flying off the back of a wave in Hawaii. With some Botox added to any questionable laminations ala epoxy , she should be fine... ha. My order of priority for building floats for this fast cruising trimaran is structural integrity/safety, practicality and then weight.,and they are very much interrelated..
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2020
  13. trip the light fandango
    Joined: Apr 2018
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    Location: Rhyll Phillip Island Victoria Australia

    trip the light fandango Senior Member

  14. trip the light fandango
    Joined: Apr 2018
    Posts: 384
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    Location: Rhyll Phillip Island Victoria Australia

    trip the light fandango Senior Member

    I've glassed in the little stubs of H16 that sit behind the cases and have resorted to an old surfboard [a ring around] to fair and glass the join. Polyurethane sikaflex takes to the foam easily , I didn't want to fill/fair the voids with Qcell, They're a bit heavy and rigid, and I don't want to run out of microballoons..Most of that foam will be cut off before sanding. I think that the bow shape looks practical for beaching and running into things so I'll go with it..
    I priced deck inspection covers today, I'll need four 8inch and six 6inch. The deck will need a little extra glass on each to handle all the holes, but I need them for glassing in the beam posts, injecting epoxy ties through the foam sandwich , and for storing light things. Tremolinos aren't known for their storage space.
     

  15. trip the light fandango
    Joined: Apr 2018
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    Location: Rhyll Phillip Island Victoria Australia

    trip the light fandango Senior Member

    The hull on the right is looking a little bulbous, this stuff is easy to sand.
    I'll lay 2 layers of 6 ounce over this , the strength is already built in. the urethane glue can tend to roll when sanded , I wont be using it for glueing edges anymore, it holds wonderfully glued straight on. This next week I'll have to decide whether to buy sheets of polyurethane foam and fair the hulls to a point where the joins disappear completely. I think I'll leave them and see whether they work well and aren't too heavy. I would be better off spending money/time on epoxy/plywood hulls. I had some advise from Guzzi a couple of years ago where he suggested knocking up a set of ply floats out of cheap ply to see how they went..that was good advise, but I had already bought my hulls. I'll weigh them today..
    They weigh 85kgs, that's without the H16 posts to take the beams, One hip protrudes a little more on one than on the other hull, the lines are shapely and growing on me , I'm happy with them.
    My cases are strong enough to use foils, what do you think of this idea where the foil slots into the case from below using the space left from the taper of the tip of the dagger board. Because I 've lengthened the cases there is more taper of the daggerboard left in the case when fully down, this means there is more room to slip the foils in between the case and the board..I'd drill a hole in the board and foil to fit a removable fuse/dowel to hold them together. The pictures are behind the paper clips , for some odd reason...They need to be long, I'll can this idea for a while. When mixing Q cell put a standard screw driver in a battery drill , the handle stirs it nicely.
     

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    Last edited: Feb 11, 2020
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