building my own boat

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by alley123, Aug 16, 2011.

  1. CatBuilder

    CatBuilder Previous Member

    Ask the designer of the plans you are thinking of building.

    Any competent modern designer should be able to provide you with a materials list for the entire boat, assuming any have been built.

    Also spend .00001 of your boat build budget on "study plans" from the designer.

    If you are too cheap to buy study plans and start a dialog with a reputable designer, you'll never be able to afford this build. -Not that I'm saying you are too cheap, but you need to be ready to start spending money on this project TODAY, even in the learning phase, if you are serious.

    Otherwise, pack it up and look for something else to do.
     
  2. Stumble
    Joined: Oct 2008
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    Location: New Orleans

    Stumble Senior Member

    Alley,

    The project cost depending on design is going to be within spitting distance of buying a new boat of the type you are considering. For a Hatteras type of boat that runs 2.5 million figure in that range. Any savings you have in labor will almost defiantly be offset in the additional cost of material you face as a one off builder. Not to mention the opportunity cost of the money you will have tied up in materials long before you get to use the boat. It is just rarely cheaper to build vs buy. There are other justifications of course, but price isn't really one of them.

    Again using a 65 Hatteras as the comparable, the boat weighs in at 100,000lbs. Take say 20% off for systems, and as a rough guess you are looking at 80,000lbs in fiberglass. So in a good hand layup there will be a 60:40 resin:glass ratio. So you are looking at 32,000lbs of glass and 48,000lbs of resin in the hull itself. Figure 15% overage, which is pretty conservative for an amateur builder, and you are looking at buying 36,800lbs of glass and 55,200 lbs of resin.

    Also remember if you are not using epoxy the rsisns are flammable, and in this quantity may require state and local permits to store in this quantity. At about 9lbs per gallon you are looking at around 6,000 gallons of flammable material.
     
  3. viking north
    Joined: Dec 2010
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    Location: Newfoundland & Nova Scotia

    viking north VINLAND

    And that my man is one big truck load of money and a 25% of the labour require to build the Great Wall of China. How I long for the days of the energy and dreams of youth. However don't give up but do take advise it's the only thing we old boys have left to offer--:) Geo.
     
  4. alley123
    Joined: Aug 2011
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    Location: United Kingdom

    alley123 Junior Member

    i have my facility labour and equiptment that i need , i was only enquiring had anyone done such a project just to get an idea how many cubes of resin i need but ill find it out from my plans i guess, i dont appreciate lister comments but thanks for your replys, i thought there mite be someone who had done such a project or would be interested to help. i know im new to this forum but comments like that dont make u feel very welcome
     
  5. CatBuilder

    CatBuilder Previous Member

    There is always somebody who ends up getting on your nerves on a forum. Don't worry about it. Just to be clear: I write forcefully, but do care to see that your project evaluation goes well. I am currently right in the middle of such a project (45' catamaran) and know precisely where you are starting from. My advice was from experience and was intended to help. Hope it did.

    PS: Your plans are the only accurate, definite way to find out the amount of materials you need. The rest is just educated guessing.
     
  6. Stumble
    Joined: Oct 2008
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    Location: New Orleans

    Stumble Senior Member

    Alley,

    I think people are being a bid dismissive since the forum constantly get bombarded with questions such as this by people who have no idea how much work a large boat like this is, and don't really want advice just approval. When people realize that a boat like this is likely something in the neighborhood of 10,000 man hours to build they just wind up leaving, or attacking people who build boats for a living. And raising the issue of cost when considering a multi-million dollar build right from the start tends to leave this impression.

    Just look at it from out perspective. Your first post is that you are going to build a 65' boat. With no links to a design, thoughts on what you are building, what the boat is for, your experience in undertaking this job, or capability to undertake it.
     
  7. alley123
    Joined: Aug 2011
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    Location: United Kingdom

    alley123 Junior Member

    wats wrong with my questions
     
  8. viking north
    Joined: Dec 2010
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    Location: Newfoundland & Nova Scotia

    viking north VINLAND

    Alley-- some 30 to 35 trs. ago I purchased a set of Bruce Roberts plans for the 36ft. spray. I seem to recall a bill of materials and an approximation of man hours required for the build included in the study plans. Life got in the way and I never did build that boat but went on to buy--fix up-- and build many others. In todays buyers market it wouldn't surprise me if you could find something close to what you want , maybe the exact craft 50 to 75 % completed for 25cents. on the dollar. A friend of mine just grew too old to complete his steel 55ft. sailing vessel 50% completed for less than the price of the lead in her keel. I myself started my latest build (my personal boat) some 3 yrs. ago and had I known then where the price of used boats would drop to I certainly would have waited and bought as such. I know this is not for everyone out there but if you have a little stash of cash put aside,handy with the tools and have a few fellow mates who want to become part of the project it's a win- win situation--Anyhow good luck--don't go shy on the forum-- post your build (lots a photos) under the forums "Boatbuilding" heading and you'll have ample help on your queries. Geo.
     
  9. alley123
    Joined: Aug 2011
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    Location: United Kingdom

    alley123 Junior Member

    lister, wats wrong with my questions?
     
  10. FMS
    Joined: Jul 2011
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    Location: united states

    FMS Senior Member

    It's not specific enough a question and you haven't given enough background on your existing capabilities to come up with an answer.

    Start by making a detailed list of the boat's requirements for yourself.
    • What does this motoryacht need to be capable of? Itemize in detail and then prioritize.
    • What amenities will be included? Itemize and prioritize again. It's a balance what can be included and the cost, in money and one requirement impacting another.
    • Why do you want to build new instead of buying new or used? Do the parameters above lead you to a boat that is not readily on the market?
    • Are you aiming for the fit and finish of a Hatteras or Viking with new engines and gear or are you creating something utilitarian with used hardware?
    • What will labor cost you? Do you have an idle workforce now that will offset the cost?
    • What will the space cost you? A 65' one-off is not a quick build so these factors add up.
    • Detailed Requirements will lead you to the design. It may or may not make sense to build yourself instead of buying a boat built by existing professionals. If you start with resin cost and choose what you can build from there, I worry that you will wake up one day with a partially complete hull that doesn't make sense to build out at some point.

    I'm cheap, but CatBuilder, Stumble, and Viking offered excellent advice above.

    Even if you spend a few thousand dollars on study plans and consultation with a designer now to calculate material and labor to achieve detailed goals, it will be money well spent in the overall project.
     
  11. messabout
    Joined: Jan 2006
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    Location: Lakeland Fl USA

    messabout Senior Member

    Alley; do not take exception to a single post (Lister). We have many different personalities on this forum. Even really nice guys sometimes have a bad day and they post domething that the OP might construe as impolite.

    You are flirting with a project that may take many years to complete as well as involving seven figure costs. If some of us are skeptical, that need not cause you any distress. Stay with us if you are serious about this project. You will get plenty of encouragement.
     
  12. alley123
    Joined: Aug 2011
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    Location: United Kingdom

    alley123 Junior Member

    many thanks to catbuilder, stumble, viking and messabout . your replys are very helpful and much appreciated, ill get my study plans and see im not for getting dis-heartened yet and thanks again .
     
  13. Russ Kaiser
    Joined: Jul 2009
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    Location: Winston-Salem, NC

    Russ Kaiser Exuberant Amateur

    I had a friend that started on a project half this size. He owned a company that made camper shells for pick-up trucks, so he had plenty of background in fiberglass, at least in the polyester variety. He bought drives right away, but not the diesels. His hull has been 3/4 finished for about 10 years now. He just ran out of money and got tired of working on it ever hour that he wasn't at his real job. (SO DID HIS WIFE) It still sits in the back of his warehouse, gathering dust, and over 200 miles from blue water.

    That's the other issue, a 65 foot boat has to be built damn close to where it will be launched. Do you have access to a site like that?

    Russ
     
  14. masalai
    Joined: Oct 2007
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    Location: cruising, Australia

    masalai masalai

    Have a look at other builds, mine is http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/boat-building/my-little-piece-peace-25962.html and runs for 111 pages (about a third was documented at another website - now closed)... I have around 2000 images on the process and some of the models used to test the concept are in my gallery here... The research occupied some 2 years and the build another 2 years with 2 extra helpers near full time...

    The only reason to build is NOT that it is cheaper, but that you are a pedantic and fussy bugger wanting to exert your own vision... Build design and engineering is best left to professionals... The build kit cost about $65,000 2.5 years ago... My coach-house used $8000 in foam panels for the roof, and the engineering work with integrated-mast-step was about $5000 in professional design... The engine systems $32,000 the PV panels, batteries 24V/230VAC mains-power electrical system around $19,000 and then comes the electronics, paint, and hundreds of other things... :eek: Money expressed in Au$ terms...

    It performs exactly as expected and determined by Bob Oram, the designer... Will sit happily on its own bottom (a pair of mini-keels) giving a draft of 1.1. to 1.4 metres... It is quite stable in a following sea (minimal tendency to broach in big seas)... It is easily driven and in a recent shakedown cruise achieved 2 miles per litre at 5 knots... Top speed was about 7.2knots with a pair of 20hp saildrives in a still water/no wind situation and surfing down some following seas recorded 19+knots on a night run under power with no drama... With a full load of fuel (1500kg) should have a range exceeding 2000 N Miles at 7 knots under power alone...

    My cruising region is the 3000 odd ? islands around the Coral Sea and a bit beyond - The design was specifically tailored to work those tropical waters...

    DO YOUR HOMEWORK, enjoy the process and love your boat by using it 24/7 as your home, workplace and global/regional transport system... BUILD the SMALLEST that will meet your BASIC NEEDS...
     

  15. m3mm0s rib
    Joined: Aug 2011
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    Location: GREECE

    m3mm0s rib Senior Member

    Congrats said it all
     
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