Building from a simple line plan?

Discussion in 'Wooden Boat Building and Restoration' started by J.D.Hogg, Oct 2, 2014.

  1. J.D.Hogg
    Joined: May 2006
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    J.D.Hogg Junior Member

    I am interested in opinions on the degree of difficulty of building a large (30 - 50 ft) traditional american wooden boat without construction details.

    I have been trying to find a small fishing schooner, pinkie etc to adapt to a simple basic yacht, but have not found any contemporary designs that appeal for various reasons. I suppose that Reuel Parker's Virginia Pilot Schooner is the closest "contemporary design" to what I am after but it is drawn for plywood and too small.
     
  2. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

    As a rule, I can say that every hour spent in developing the construction plans can save 6 hours of work on the boat. This is my opinion and I know that even that is debatable.
    Therefore achieves construction plans. They are cheap.
     
  3. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    You can use one of Chapelle's books on boatbuilding. They have construction and structural details of all types of American work boats. On that size, you can also use a cookbook approach for scantlings. For example, "Elements of Boat Strength" by Gerr or Herreshof's scantling rules.
     
  4. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Can you refine the search a bit, as 30' - 50' traditional American wooden boat is a huge venue of choices.

    This is probably too small for you, but I have others.

    [​IMG]

    I find it hard to believe you're having trouble in this search, considering the literally thousands of plans in various places (Smithsonian, Mystic, etc.)
     
  5. Ike
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    Ike Senior Member

    PAR
    That is my favorite of your designs. A real beautyyyyy.
     
  6. rwatson
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    rwatson Senior Member

    I can totally agree with that.

    May I add - it saves 30% of material costs as well - by not wasting unplanned workarounds, by not building too heavy and by being able to accurately order materials in bulk, cheaper.
     
  7. Wayne Grabow
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    Wayne Grabow Senior Member

    You cannot build a large boat without construction details by using only a simple line plan. What size should the first piece of wood you pick up to start construction be? That is your first construction detail. The question is how to develop all those construction details. How experienced are you? How much time to you have on your hands? What is your completion time schedule? You need to educate yourself, hire a professional to help with the details, or find a plan which includes those details. When building you always need to understand what needs to be done well in advance of where you are at. The construction steps build on each other. Without details, you will face frustration from inefficiency, false starts and remakes.
     
  8. J.D.Hogg
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    J.D.Hogg Junior Member

    When you feel stupid for asking you are probably getting the right answers eh?

    Narrowing it down would be traditional working craft from 1770s to 1900. I don't know a name for the hull form but it is shared by virtually every american schooner until racing became the primary purpose of hull development. Pinkies are nice too and generally in the size I am seeking.

    I had heard about the Smithsonian's collection. So correct me if I am wrong but you must first find what kind of boat it is by finding it on the internet or in one of Chapelle's books etc. Then you can oder the plans and then you find out what details the plans actually have? I don't mean to sound lazy but is that how I need to do it? I keep hearing about crocker and peterson and others but I cannot find anything specific on their work either. Hell, even the Bolger boats I've found interesting are illusive.

    PAR that is handsome. Im looking for a blue water, long term live aboard for two with room for provisions for extended stays in remote areas and room for self employment, so yeah a little small but good in every other checkbox. where do I find your other designs?
     
  9. lewisboats
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    lewisboats Obsessed Member

    In the bottom of his posts is that ^ ...which is a link.
     
  10. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Emily Rose is a real blue water craft, with lots of storage, given her volume.

    I'm not sure why you're having difficulty finding each of the designers you've listed, as all have organizations that handle their plans.

    A century and a third of range is still way too large a grouping, as is the assumption that "virtually all" American schooners had the same basic hull form. During the period you mention, the American schooner evolved a lot, in fact quite dramatically. Is there a specific boat you might like? What about this boat is it you like and does the hull form have to be an antique or would a modern interpretation, that can offer lighter, stronger and a faster boat acceptable. This is what Emily Rose does, look like what her rig suggests, yet has significantly reduced wetted surface, much less displacement, higher ballast ratio, better maneuverability, sailing attributes, etc. Of course these types of boats are not common and usually custom. Maybe a Chapelle rendering gets close, but needs something, etc. In other words, try to pin down what you want, so you can refine what designs or hull forms fit.

    If you just want the character, then there's lot of designers to choose from and I'd recommend Jay Benford (there's lots of others). If you want the full up antique approach, maybe Atkins (Jay Benford cut his drafting teeth in the Atkins office) is a place to look or possibly being more specific about your schooner. Hell, I hate to mention it, but even George Buehler has some salty, sort of traditionally built designs, though don't ask my opinion about their sailing qualities or build methods. Look here:

    http://www.roverschooners.com/

    Click on the "PAR Plans" link for more information about Emily Rose and others.

    Lastly, you can build just from lines drawings, but you really have to have a lot of experience with building. It would be nice to have a scanting list, but just lines will do if you have some serious building experience. There will be a lot of head scratching, cursing and many hours in the moaning chair, but you'd have known and prepared for the issues, if attempting something like that.
     
  11. SukiSolo
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    SukiSolo Senior Member

    Although less familiar with the American schooner forms, it is quite evident from British hull shapes through this period that there was significant evolution. PAR is right about even more contemporary work, his own included, making for more seaworthy boats with better all round performance.

    As for construction, I would be concerned about timescales and who would be building. A 30' + boat is quite a big project for an individual and there are quite a lot of handling issues to deal with, ie how to turn it over, lots of bits where at least one other person is required.

    Perhaps a look at the Fairlie 55 build in the link below will give some idea of the time frame, and that is for a professional yard. I know it is bigger and a different 'classic' shape but not too bad a yardstick, for a top notch boat.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDgKIPaW5xY

    There are a number of good books on cold moulding, which IMHO is a reasonable way to build a sound one off vessel of this size.
     
  12. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    In 1814 the Prince de Neufchatel sprung a mast and was captured by British warships that took her back to England. There her lines were taken and studied to improve existing small fast ships. At the time, she was probably the fastest privateer in the world. The type, commonly known as "Baltimore schooner", was banned throughout most of Europe. It is a parallel to modern semi-submersibles and fast powerboats that have been banned.
     
  13. SupGen
    Joined: Sep 2014
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    SupGen New Member

    Well here we go; my first post here. This is kinda funny, actually as I have become obsessed with a small schooner similar to what J.D.Hogg describes, if on the small end of that range. J.D., go here: http://www.dngoodchild.com/5139.htm . That should bring you to the page for the schooner "Nimble", which looks to be a beautiful boat, once built. I, for one, am fully aware of all the arguments for building a more modern, more (suposedly) seaworthy, more bang-for-the-buck boat, but, for the life of me this is the one I'm going to build to retire with. Oh, by the way, the plans booklet is only $7.95 and it includes more than enough detail to build from.

    Frank
     
  14. Milehog
    Joined: Aug 2006
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    Milehog Clever Quip

    Tad Roberts has posted a vessel he is developing on another forum. It is designed around materials that are actually available. Here is a peek.

    Despite all the pessimism I'm currently working on a big freight schooner for a family member. She is wooden and of the simplest construction possible, given the required appearance. Double-sawn frame, inside ballast, trunel fastened, clear flush deck with no breaks, 56' on deck by 16'8" beam and draft around 6'0". She'll carry a Wharram style lashed on outboard rudder, Wizbang (Caribbean) type shroud posts (rather than chainplates), and softeye rigging rather than mast irons. We're minimizing the metal work and thus the stuff that must be purchased, there will be some galvanized bolts and drifts, but as few as possible. The rabbet won't be quite as shown in the profile, it will come to a point aft down low. And there may be a cut-out in the deadwood for a propeller, unless I can convince him to go with the prop shaft offset out one quarter.

    The windows and pilothouse door are not yet complete. The deckhouse is about 4' high so you can stand aft and look over it. The deck line follows the upper edge of the whale strake.

    [​IMG]

    ___________________________________
    Tad
    cogge ketch Blackfish
    cat ketch Ratty
    http://www.tadroberts.ca
    http://blog.tadroberts.ca/
    http://www.passagemakerlite.com
     

  15. J.D.Hogg
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    J.D.Hogg Junior Member

    Welcome SupGen, Im mostly a lurker myself.

    Tad Roberts blogged about Francis Fredette's Sealing Schooner Which is close to hat I'm seeking. [​IMG]
     
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