Building a new deck / coachwork

Discussion in 'Fiberglass and Composite Boat Building' started by Sulian, Jun 30, 2009.

  1. Sulian
    Joined: Jun 2009
    Posts: 10
    Likes: 1, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 46
    Location: Bath, UK

    Sulian Junior Member

    Hi,

    After a long absence from sailing I mentioning to my girlfriend that I quite fancied getting a boat again, probaly a cheap one that needed some TLC to get back in shape..... this past weekend I was dragged of for what was supposed to be a weekend trip and was introduced to my new project boat which she had bought me as a surprise... I love that woman :D

    After some research I've discovered she's a Marcon Trident 24, and it should look like this - http://www.yachtsnet.co.uk/archives/trident-24/trident-24.htm

    Now to the reason for my post, the previous owner had purchased it as a project and cut of the old wooden deck and coachworks, he has then tried to build new using ply with a glass fibre outer covering.... unfortunately it would appear he was strangely fond of right angles so the poor thing looks like someone has glassed a series of cardboard boxes onto an extremly odd shaped deck :confused:

    I therefore have to cut his attempt off and start again. My plan is to make a mold and then make a complete deck and coachwork assembly that I can then bond into place probabaly doing seperate molds for the cockpit and foredeck/coachwork. Although I have the woodworking skill to redo her in wood as per original spec I don't think I have the finance available.

    Although I could buy numerous books on the subject until I found the one that actually helped I thought I would ask those in the know if they could suggect any books, websites or downloadable preferably free PDF type documents that would help me with the practicalities of fibre glass constuction, layups, resins, gel coats, thickness required for expected forces, bonding in strengtheners etc.

    I'm sure this will be the first of many post as I go through this process but I'll make them a little shorter;) and any help would be greatly appreciated.

    Cheers
    Sulian
     
  2. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    Welcome here, and congratulations, sounds you have the right one at your side! (the female)

    I would strongly suggest to rethink the statement above! The cost for moulds resin and cloth is usually much higher than those for a wooden rebuild. Using both materials in the several hundred tonnes p.a. ballpark I say: Wood is cheaper!


    Regards
    Richard
     
  3. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
    Posts: 19,133
    Likes: 482, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 3967
    Location: Eustis, FL

    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    I'd have to agree with Richard about making a mold and building a 'glass deck cap. This would be great if you needed several of them, but a lot of effort for just one.

    Build in place, using cardboard, foam or plywood as a base for your efforts. You can leave the "mold" materials in place or remove them after things have set up, for that clean look.

    I'd do it in wood rather then 'glass, though I would sheath exterior elements with fabric for abrasion and waterproofing protection.

    With thin layers of plywood, you can build very complex shapes for not a lot of money. That boat would look great with modernized styling, so pen out your new deck structures with an eye toward classic or modern shapes. If you used foam, you could get even more complex shapes, though I suspect a 'glass deck will be more costly then a wooden.
     
  4. bob26
    Joined: Jul 2009
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    Location: Sussex UK

    bob26 New Member

    Hi Sulian

    You may know there is an active owners association for the Trident 24 including some members who built their own coachroofs.

    See here: http://www.trident-owners-association.co.uk/help.html

    The association publishes a regular magazine and members get a free Trident Owners Manual - a collection of every useful hint , tip and modification published about the Trident 24 over the past 40 odd years.


    The Trident 24 was one of the earliest glassfibre-hulled boats built (in the early sixties) and originally all had a wooden deck. After about ten were built a GRP deck moulding was produced and most thereafter were built with a GRP top though the hull was still available for anyone who wanted to build their own coachroof. The Trident went on being available into the 1980s - even after Marcon the original builders went bust. About 250 were built in all. They were very strongly and solidly built as the material was relatively new then and designers/builders hadn't really discovered how strong it was. Also buyers were used to wooden boats with heavy scantlings and needed the reassurance of heavy lay-ups.

    I own one of these and would be happy to provide you with a copy of the original plans if you were interested and possibly some pics of alternative lids...which I've probably got somewhere. The original Trident has a very traditional look - which is what some of us love about the design. Again, it took a while before designers in GRP realised wooden boats were the shape they were because that's the shape wooden boats had to be and with a new material like GRP you were not limited by the material in the same way. So the early grpo boats looked like wooden boats.

    The low coachroof of the original means I can't stand up in mine though others have raised the coachroof to suit themselves. I have also seen a largely flush-decked version with a small doghouse.

    Contact me on Bob-26@hotmail.co.uk if I can be of any help with your project or you'd like to see a finished Trident 24 near you.
     
  5. SamSam
    Joined: Feb 2005
    Posts: 3,900
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    Location: Coastal Georgia

    SamSam Senior Member

    That's pretty amazing, Sulians first post here is answered within 24 hrs by bob26's first post, and it could hardly be better. How do you all say it- Cheers! Tally-ho! Carry on!

    Sulian, forget making a mold, twice the work, three times the expense. When you do get going on putting it back together, check to see the shape of the hull hasn't changed whilst sitting around, like the sides spreading out or bad blocking making dents or that the hull isn't twisted.
     
  6. bob26
    Joined: Jul 2009
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    Location: Sussex UK

    bob26 New Member


    Well, that's because I'm a bit of a Trident enthusiast (I've owned 2 over the past 30 years). Some might say a Trident bore. For instance, I'm not sure anyone says Tally Ho! any more. I think that's a fox hunting term rather than a sailing one though there is a Trident called "Woh Jata" (which means " "ride like the Devil") which is the Urdu equivalent of Tally ho! Though in India where this comes from it's not foxes they hunt with hounds on horseback but wild boar with a lance. As in the poem:

    "And see the veteran scorning the youngster's prancing pride,
    Until the cry, " Woh jata " " Ride, like the Devil ride "

    Sets horse and rider throbbing ; for there, full in his stride,
    With angry roar the old grey Boar bursts through the jungle
    side."

    And I'm intrigued by Sulian's forum name:I think Sula is Urdu for spear or the three pronged spear we call a trident. So is Sulian a scholar of the Indian languages?

    My money is on him having come into the possession of a wooden decked Trident 24 called Sula - a picture of which I could attach here if I could work out how to - which he has adopted as his forum ID. Just a guess.

    To get back on design issues, the Trident 24 was designed by Alan F Hill. It was his first GRP design (it was one of the first GRP designs by anyone) and Alan was in his early 20s at the time and working in the design office of Robert Clark, designer of Sir F Chichester's Gypsy Moth III and Chay Blyth's British Steel as well as the Yachting World 5-tonner Tarmin, the 25 footer in which the American John Sowden circumnavigated 3 times (and still holds the record for doing so in the same boat). Tarmin was previously owned by Eric White - the builder of the Trident 24 and founder of the Marcon boatbuilding company. He sold Tarmin to finance the plug for the Trident (he was a truck driver at the time - the first Trident had to be launched in the dark because Eric was busy driving his truck during the daytime!) . Alan Hill went on to design over 120 boats including many successful production GRP boats (The Sabre, Tomahawk, Halberdier, Cutlass [with Eric White]) and his interest in innovative materials led him on to design ferro-cement cruisers.

    Bet you wished you'd never ask.

    Bob26
     
  7. Sulian
    Joined: Jun 2009
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    Location: Bath, UK

    Sulian Junior Member

    Thanks for the information / advice above, I've got some more research to do but it would seems the boat I have probably had wooden coachworks and decking so I will probably go back down that line. The reasons I was thinking of a mold was for longevity, low maintenance and 'curves' but I've decided that I really like the look of the original and would enhance it with a varnished finish..... but we'll see.

    Bob26 - thanks for your input, my membership form is wending its way to the TOA as we speak and I'll drop you a PM about the other info.

    As to the name of the boat, I'm afraid you're wrong... she did have a wooden deck but that was cut up/off by the previous owner who decided the project was a too much but her name is Terinka, apart from this I have very little background knowledge.

    As for my tag, I am from the old roman city of Aquae Sulis, hence Sulian and although there is a history of spears and boar hunting this time has long since passed and we settle for sparing in the form of Rugby.

    Anyway, thanks again for the responses and I dare say I'll update as things progress.

    Here's to the sun being over the yard arm.....
    Chin chin
    Sulian
     
  8. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    If you encapsulate your precious timberwork in at least three layers Epoxy (can be the cheapest) and give that a good UV protection by paint or varnish, it will last much longer than GRP.
    I know Epoxy is idiotically expensive in UK, so, purchase that here:

    http://www.r-g.de/en/

    Regards
    Richard
     
  9. Sulian
    Joined: Jun 2009
    Posts: 10
    Likes: 1, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 46
    Location: Bath, UK

    Sulian Junior Member

    Thanks for the link Apex, their prices seem to be very good.

    Sulian
     

  10. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    They can afford to be cheap they rip me off for some 80 tonnes p.a.
     
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