Building a Mold of my Plywood runabout

I recently completed my plywood runabout with Glen-L plans. Sea trials preformed great, WAY better than I could have hoped.

Over the course of the build I have made modifications to the hull. Changing the position of the Chines to create a deeper entry, adding Lift Strake's at the suggestion of local boat builder Hourston Glascraft and many other modifications that would take a year to list

Now I don't want to "splash" any designers, and I most certainly don't want to break any laws. But I don't particularly want to spend another 4+ years creating a second or multiple hulls that most certainly wont be the same.

I haven't decided if I will sell hull's in the future as a boat builder. But as it stands my best friend was with me at Seatrials and other trips and is willing to pay me to make him a boat EXACTLY like mine as he has no space to build his own. Other's within my yacht club expressed interests in hulls if I can make a mold.

So the question, Can I legally make a mold of my Runabouts hull?

Like I previously stated, I have no intention in "splashing" anybody and don't want to break any laws. Just wondering if its legal. If not, no big deal. I just need a larger garage

 

I won't tell anyone if you and your best friend keep it a secret too. Will the mould "draw" off the plywood hull ? You don't want to try and make a mould off it and find everything is locked together, that would be a sorry situation.

 

Usually once you alter the design it is considered "new", though that just depends on what attorneys can convince a judge on whether you stole a design or not. So there is no clear answer until it is too lake.

As a practical matter if you make a few boats there is little likelihood anyone will care. If you make a lot of them and actually do what few have done, and make some money building boats, than you become a target for lawsuits. However, consider that you are only using some of the lines of the hull, not any of the other details, nor even the plans. The structural design of the hull will be different since you are making a molded glass reinforced plastic hull, not a wood plank on frame design. It is really a very different boat you will be building, you are not really stealing their copyright, only some of the lines off the hull.

A more reliable approach might be to contact Glen-L and tell them exactly what you wrote here, but list the more significant changes in detail, and get permission to use their hull shape. You might be able to work out a small royalty payment to them for each hull you build. If you only make a few this will not amount to much compared to the cost of making the boat, if you go into production line assembly (unlikely), than you can renegotiate the fee. This is not such a bad deal because with an agreement you can advertise that the design is based on a proven Glen-L design, a well known and respected boat plan company. Plans for the smaller boats are only about $130 each, it seems to me a reasonable fee for borrowing some of the lines off their plans would be about half of that, that is a very minor part of the cost of building a boat.

Good luck.

Post some pictures of your boat please!

 

You alread spilled the beans and there no way to hide the fact !!

Added strakes and spray rails and transom rack are the first most obvious places to bind up and then there's the angle of the topsides !! depending on curves ,tumble home, rolled over, bow flare etc etc , not forgetting the gunnel rail!! and possible deck edge detail.
Glass boats start there lives as being moulds built over wooden boats but usually purpose built and sometimes throwaway plugs !! but tapper and draw and rounded radiused edges and corners etc etc make for easier moulding . Go take a close careful look at a glass boat and get the angles and lines and compare with what you have got on yours !!. even with all your changes its still started its life as some one else's design and yes you are splashing in the true sense of the word so what you going to do about it ??
Me id make a new one and design it myself ! you have the knowledge from the boat you just built so change it a little everywhere , the boats performance is only governed by the shape from the chine to the keel stem to stern so keep that pretty close and you will have your own boat !!

 

Tunnels is right, the radiusing of the "corners" will be a problem, even it it draws cleanly. Then you have the lawyers.....I feel a migraine coming on !

 

The cat is well and truely out of the bag and bolted for the hills! so

Think long and hard about what you want to do !
first you are about to splash or copy another designers /persons design !! secondly will all those loyal followers want to be a part of this deal and buy boats from you knowing full well they could get implicated in this hassles and the finger pointing at some time in the future even to the point of loosing there boats ??
Me I like to sleep easy at night and I say start with a blank sheet of paper and draw and make your own designed boat !! you have got a starting point and have made changes to improve and possibly make better so follow that theme and make the next one even better !
Use the sale of the boat you have now to finance the project but don't tread on toes !!

 

Alright. Looks like the bigger garage is in order to just make more out of plywood

Stuff gets too complicated these days. I don't want to tread on toes or anything. I have all respect for the marine industry and would hate to ruin somebody's life's work. it was just an idea to avoid the long wait for my buddy. Lawyers are a pain and not worth effort.

Thanks for all the quick responses guys.

 

I know how you feel but the hassles and sleepless nights just are not worth it !!
Have been a done a few splash's in my time but only small stuff would never even contemplate a boat ! but I would copy some ideas mind you !!

 

You have made modifications to bottom which would make it basically a new design. Cosmetic changes alone are not considered a significant change. However, since all the cosmetic design is not changed, Glen-L may have a claim to it. Largely it would depend on whether they copyrighted the design or got a design patent. If they did neither, it is likely there is not problem since the design pre-dates the new Laws.

 

sssshhhhh!!!!

All I can say is it could lead to a lot of speculations and potential problems so just do you own design and remember sssssssshhhhhh!!!!
say nothing to any one and don't even let the neighbours dog see what you doing !!!!

 

Gonzo, are you suggesting that I call/email Glen-L and ask if I could create a mold of the hull I just built? Or maybe ask if a patent exists??

I seriously doubt I would make more than 3 or 4 of these things. Or maybe somebody has a better idea for making 3-4 of them. A mold is a lot of effort for 3 or 4 boats. Not that it would be my expense, just my space is taken up

I did buy the plans from Glen-L. And flipping through the paperwork they gave me nothing says I cant build more than 1 hull per set of plans. So it should be okay to build more than 1 hull right? Shouldnt matter how you do it either...?? As long as its mark it with Glen-L name somewhere on the boat I'm crediting all those deserving credit.....????

I probably wouldn't make any $$ of these hull (not that many boat builders ever make $$) I would just be reimbursed for any expenses I made from those few who decide they want boats.

Keep in mind, This is an idea still, no steps have been taken to even start the molding process. Not even sure how I even intend to make a mold yet......

 

I think you are for more trouble than you bargain for. Copyrights are on that design registered or not that it is. If you want to start a business, design your own boat and if you can't do it, pay a designer to do it for you. Will cost you less than a court battle. It is legally and also morally wrong to carbon copy anyone's work. As you can see, it take you a long time and a lot of money to get to produce something that works and after all that, would you be pleased if someone else takes it without copyrights agreement?

 

the simple answer is to get written permission from Glen-L. either they grant it at no charge, or will grant it for a small fee. Either way it will forestall any future issues.

Negotiate the fee based on a "per unit", if you make 3, you pay three fees, if you make ten, than you pay ten fees. If you are looking at building more than that, than consider a one time unlimited use license. This will save you money, and give glen-L what they deserve.

This is not difficult, just contact them and ask their permission. At most they will just charge you the fee for buying one set of plans for each hull you build. a small price to pay.

 

Below is my summary of US laws which might be considered relevant to boat design rights. Disclaimer - I'm not an attorney.

Utility Patent , 20 years. Must be applied for and granted. Most boat designs and elements of boat designs don’t qualify for a utility patent because they don’t meet the required conditions. Validity of a patent is only established through litigation. After 20 years the contents of a utility patent are public domain.

Design Patent, 14 years. Must be applied for and granted. Protects only the original aspects of the appearance and ornamentation of an object, not it’s functional aspects or construction. Validity of a patent is only established through litigation. After 14 years the contents of a design patent are public domain.

Vessel Hull Design Protection Act, 10 years. Registration must be applied for and approved . Designs which are covered by a design patent are not eligible for VHDPA registration. VHDPA covers the shape and the hull and deck if they are sufficiently unique and have been registered. “Protection is afforded only to vessel hull designs embodied in actual vessel hulls that are publicly exhibited, publicly distributed, or offered for sale or sold to the public on or after October 28, 1998.” Does not apply to designs which have not been built and application for registration has to be made within two years of the first public showing of the hull. Once the 10 year term expires the design is in the public domain.

Copyright, term varies and for works created before 1978. and without copyright notice and/or registration there may be no copyright. Works created after 1977 do not require registration or notice. Terms for works which qualify for copyright are very long. In general copyright applies to “original works of authorship”. Artwork is covered by copyright to the extent it is non-functional. Functional objects are not covered by copyright. Boat plans which are original may be covered by copyright and can’t be reproduced without the permission of the copyright owner (other than within the fair use exemption). However the knowledge in the plans isn’t covered so boats can be built from copyright plans without infringing on the copyright.

Trade Dress, indefinite. Trade dress are the unique, visual, generally non-functional elements of a product (or its packaging which is unlikely to apply to a boat) which are identified with its source. Once rights to a trade dress are established they can last indefinitely. Registration is not required though there are advantages to registering a trade dress. I assume that similar to a trademark, trade dress has to be defended or rights to it may be lost. Trade dress appears to have been the primary basis of Hinckley’s claims concerning its “picnic boat” designs. Only certain elements of a boat’s design could constitute trade dress.

Trademark, indefinite. “A trademark is a word, phrase, symbol or design, or a combination of words, phrases, symbols or designs, that identifies and distinguishes the source of the goods of one party from those of others.” The name of a boat design such as “Laser” or “Sunfish”, or of a manufacturer such as “Benateau” may be a trademark and if so can only be used by the trademark owner. However, a trademark is not a design so ownership of a trademark does not confer any rights to a particular design.

License Agreements and Contracts, term depends on the agreement. Private agreements between two parties which are only enforceable by one of the parties, and in general require agreement by both parties. An example would be a license agreement between a designer and a builder under which the designer agrees to furnish the builder with plans for a boat and the builder agrees to pay a fee, build only one boat from the plans, and not allow anyone else to build a boat from the plans. Presumably this type of agreement is what is meant by statements such as “buying a set of plans only allows one boat to be built”. A license agreement can also include a requirement that the plans cannot be transferred to another party without their agreement to the license terms. Someone who is not a party to the license agreement or contract cannot be forced to abide by its terms, nor can they require the parties to the agreement to behave in a certain manner. Museums and others who own plans can as a condition of selling otherwise providing copies of plans require agreement to a license agreement which restricts how and who can use the plans. However they cannot restrict the building of boats of the designs by parties who did not agree to the license conditions.

David Cockey
Rochester Hills, Michigan
7 December 2010
Revised 9 May 2013
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Unless you have an outstanding product with a real point of difference, getting involved in boat-building would seem fraught with financial risk. Just enjoy your boat, imo.