Building a hull mold, has anyone done this???

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by gbaaron, Sep 26, 2006.

  1. gbaaron
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    gbaaron Junior Member

    I was wondering if anyone has done this?
    Take an existing hull, pull a female mold from this hull to then make your own hull. I have done many repaires / rebuilds on older boats and am very familiar with fiberglass repair but I have never built a boat from the ground up. I thought at first I would design and build my own hull but I would rather use a design that has already been proven and tested.

    The design would be a 25'-28' non step offshore / performance style V-hull. Similar to the mid to late 80's formulas.

    Any info is much appreciated.
     
  2. Verytricky
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    Verytricky Large Member

    Looks to be a duplicate post: Duplicate answer...

    It is called splashing, and is theft. You can do so if the boat design owner gives permission.
     
  3. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    What you suggest is quite illegal. It's called "splashing" and if it was one of my designs, you'd not want to run into me in a dark alley, 'cause I stomp you for the theft of my efforts.

    How would you feel if someone stole you work and made a boat from it?
     
  4. fiberglass jack
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    fiberglass jack Senior Member

    you could do it , and its illegal so i wouldnt advise to do it, but have worked in very large boat shops and what they would do is add a couple of inches by slaping a few sheets of wood on the transom and change the strikes a little before making a mould this way the boat you will make is slightly different, the rule of thumb is that if the hull doesnt fit a mould of the original ur safe make sure u have a good law firm on your side, sorry guys but everyone knows of this method, and buddy if your going to build a mould its going to cost u 50000 us and up so spend a few dollars and build a proper plug
     
  5. ChrisF
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    ChrisF Junior Member

    If you use an existing hull, no matter how you change it, it is still theft, still actionable, and still despicable.
     
  6. fiberglass jack
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    fiberglass jack Senior Member

    thats why u keep the first one u make and say that is what u used and sink and burn the one u copied hire illegals to build it they dont like to talk, also hire a good law firm ,one who likes to boat. ive seen it done many times bad **** i dont agree with it, nowadays with auto cad and cnc router quicker to run a plug off then fix a hull for a mould
     
  7. gbaaron
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    gbaaron Junior Member

    Wow my intentions were not to piss anyone off. Until now it never crossed my mind that this would be unethical.
    To those of you that could set me strait without being rude, thank you, I appreciate it.
    And the one that couldn’t, all I can say is that you can really make a new member / beginner boat builder feel welcome.

    One more thing. I highly doubt that you would want to meet me in a dark alley.
     
  8. fiberglass jack
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    fiberglass jack Senior Member

    glad to be of help 2u
     
  9. Toot
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    Toot Senior Member

    I agree that the project, as presented may be illegal, but a little question here. I'm no IP lawyer, but my impression is that it is only illegal to copy something if it is for profit or public use. Personal use is ok.

    If I buy a book and I want to carry a chapter with me, I don't need to buy a second copy and take a pair of scissors to it- I can just photocopy the pages and use them.

    If I buy a CD, I can legally rip a copy to my iPod (no matter how difficult RIAA make it to do, it's still legal unless the terms of the Licensing Agreement say otherwise and to my knowledge they never do).

    So, by analogy, doesn't it follow that if I own a boat and I make a mold from my boat and produce a part for my own boat, that I haven't really "stolen" anything?

    Of course, selling the mold, or the parts from said mold would be illegal. And it's not cost effective to build a mold for a single piece. However, I don't think it's any more illegal to do it on a hull, than it is to do it on a sail. And I believe that after a guy designs a sail for your vessel, you don't pay him a royalty every time you have a new sail made! You paid once for the design. You have a right to use it on your boat. Or are all you guys saying that it's theft every time you have a new sail made?


    I suppose those guys that buy dataplates from classic cars and rebuild an all-new car around the data plate are also engaging in theft, then?

    In other words, if you buy a boat on its last legs, in desperate need of having EVERYTHING repaired, I do believe you can pull a mold of everything and make a "new" boat and scrap the old one. It's really no different than buying an old wooden boat and rebuilding bulkheads or whatever. You aren't stealing, you're just repairing and replacing. The only difference is that when it comes to FRP boats, the pieces are a lot bigger. What? Do you think it's different merely because the hull is one piece rather than hundreds of pieces? Do you think there's a limit to what size of a piece you can replace when restoring a boat?

    Of course, by the time it's all done, you'll have spent twice as much money on the molds as on the boat itself, but I don't think it's illegal. I *think* it would even be legal to sell a part from your mold to another owner of the same vessel, so long as you only charged him for your labor and the part was only going to be fitted to an original vessel. I also think you could sell the mold to him so long as you charged him only for the time and materials of constructing the mold. Of course, after it's out of your hands, you know good and well that it might be used to illegally knock off boats, and that can be an ethical or legal problem, but in and of itself, I don't think it's illegal to sell the mold- only to use it for certain purposes. Of course, an inspector is going to scrutinize a new boat to a greater degree than a "repaired" boat, and if laws change regarding what's "acceptable", the old boat may be grandfathered in while the new boat wouldn't be... but that's another reason why it's customary in the car world to transfer the data plate and a few bits and pieces of the "old" car to the "new" car- so that you can still say it's a restoration. And so long as the original is really stripped of its usefulness, no harm is done... except to the new boat manufacturers who, of course, want to sell you the latest and "greatest".
     
  10. FAST FRED
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    FAST FRED Senior Member

    Without "Splashing' to start out there would be no boatbuilding industry today in Tiawan.

    A single copy , not for sale , is usually fine with most countrys copyright laws.

    FAST FRED
     
  11. resurrected
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    resurrected Junior Member

    Are you doing this to get into the buisness, or to build your own cool custom boat?

    Unless you wish to change the layup you can just mod what you have, like I am doing. 1978 Formula 233
     

    Attached Files:

  12. Poida
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    Poida Senior Member

    Nothings illegal, only getting caught is.

    The law only targets ordinary citizens.

    I do a bit of design work and when I did my apprenticeship some 35 years ago in design and development we took competitors products apart to see how they did things especially a new development.

    Look at cars, you don't know the make at times until you see the logo. When hatchbacks were common how many brands built one, 4 wheel drives became popular, and they're out there in all brands

    And they try and make common citizens feel like criminals if they do it.

    Probably the boat you are going to copy is not in production any more and the manufacturers have designed a new one and couldn't give a rodents rectum if you copied it or not.

    Although it seems like a lot of effort for one boat.
     
  13. gbaaron
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    gbaaron Junior Member

    This would actually be to make 4 to 6 custom boats. All built the same, same hull, same power, same outdrive. The use would be to start up a type of amateur boat racing, somewhat like mini offshore racing. Including myself there are four of us at this point looking at getting into this. To start we would split the cost of building the mold, from then we would build a prototype, and then each member would be responsible for building there own boat. After that if anyone wants to join they would pay there share of the original mold material and use the mold to build there boat.
    As stated before this would be modeled after a late 80's power boat design. Not sure but original builder probably doesn’t concentrate on that design anymore.

    If you check out Sunsations web sight the owner admits that this is how he got started in the business. It probably happens more often than we hear of.

    Toot-thanks for the comparisons, makes me feel a little better about the question, and your right is happens in many other industries and markets and people don't consider it illegal or unethical.

    Thanks for the replies guys.
     
  14. gbaaron
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    gbaaron Junior Member

    So the next questions are (if its ok to ask) who has done this? Again this is not for profit or to get into the retail boat business.
    What steps were taken to get to a finished product? what problems did you encounter? How was it done?

    Resurrected, nice project, do you have anymore pics. I'm in the middle of a similar project on a 20' Baja.
     

  15. resurrected
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    resurrected Junior Member

    Thanks, I have lots of pics of progress to date, unfortunately it has not progressed much since these. It just has a guide coat on it now, ready for gel... just waiting for my guy to spray it, I've painted lots, but never used gel.
    How much work are you doing to the Baja?
     
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