Build time 40ft catamaran

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by bluebox3000, Jan 8, 2014.

  1. cavalier mk2
    Joined: Mar 2010
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    cavalier mk2 Senior Member

    Here is an idea for the infusion panel fans. Does the world need to be flat? A foam infusion revival of the old Newick/Brown Constant Camber method might be in order. Building the mold with a good finish surface wouldn't be that much more difficult than a flat panel because it is CC. The foam could be thermally prebent to ease the process of laying flat, I mean curved. I won't get into the debate about whether it would make a better boat than flat panels but it could make a prettier one. Guys like curves in the right places.......
     
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  2. Baltic Bandit

    Baltic Bandit Previous Member

    But the point is that you can get a starting base for a lot less than it would cost to build that base and a helluva lot less time.

    I disagree that homebuilts depreciate the same as production boats. Sure in the sub $10k range I could see that. Largely because in the sub $10k range your commercial boats are either very old or very bottom end designs.

    But for a larger boat, the homebuilt never even starts off at its materials value. Not so for a commercial boat.
     
  3. groper
    Joined: Jun 2011
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    groper Senior Member

    Rubbish!

    I could show you dozens of examples of home built 40ft multihulls which sell for +$300k - well in excess of the materials and fitout they put into it - But im not going to waste my time posting the links just for you.

    This is the reason many people- including myself - are building... WE COULDN'T AFFORD TO BUY THE BOAT WE WANTED, SO WE BUILT IT INSTEAD...

    The boats you refer to, are cheap junk that are a maintenance nightmare. Theres plenty examples of boats built well, and boats built poorly- like everything, you get what you pay for!

    So humour me - as means of putting this argument to bed - show me where i can buy a 100% infused foam sandwich multihull, made with 100% epoxy and multiaxial reinforcements for their superior resistance to delamination, water ingress and high strength to weight ratio. It has to be 35-40ft length, accommomdation of 2 queen and 1 double berths, full galley and head, standing headroom throughout, and weighs ~2 tonnes dry and empty (shell + internal furniture only) so it will have some decent speed and performance... oh and the shell also needs to be brand new, but ill let you off the hook on that one, but it does need to be in perfect condition with no maintenance required for the cruising years ahead i plan to spend on it... You need to find all that for $50k AUD ($45k USD) or less... show me or shut it...
     
  4. Barra
    Joined: Feb 2014
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    Barra Junior Member

    I could show you dozens of examples of home built 40ft multihulls which sell for +$300k - well in excess of the materials and fitout they put into it - But im not going to waste my time posting the links just for you.

    Groper by materials costs , are we including plans cost, shed rental for many years, builders insurance same, tools ,labour to assist with skilled work like painting ,interior fit out, upholstery, transport to water and loss of four years of ones life etc etc. it all adds up. A friends nice mumby 50 , used for one short family cruise,
    Advertised for 400 recently sold for around 250 after a couple of years on the market and as you know the bills keep coming in even if the boat is forsale.
     
  5. groper
    Joined: Jun 2011
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    groper Senior Member

    Well... i dont have plans cost as i designed it myself, nor shed rental costs as i build in my backyard, neither builders insurance (why bother?), nor tools ( i already owned) nor skilled labour to assist as i work alone, and its only been not yet 2 years of weekend work (i have a full time job and a family with 2 children) and the shell is almost finished...

    Hey dont get me wrong - if i had a cool quarter million laying around, i much would have preferred to buy your friends boat and just go cruising... but like i said, im not a rich retiree - just a young lad with plenty of time and the will to create something from nothing... nevermind the capitol gains tax free sale when im finished with it as it will be my principal place of residence of course :D

    If i built a schionning or grainger or oram via duflex kit - id be out of pocket about $80k instead of the $50k... still cant beat that - FOR WHAT YOU GET - on the 2nd hand market - ive never seen any of the above in near new condition for under $250k, most of which are more like $400k depending on the included extras...

    Building is simply trading time for money, its that simple...
     
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  6. Barra
    Joined: Feb 2014
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    Barra Junior Member

    Good for you , I enjoy reading your build reports.
    The return from home built depends on many things including understanding neighbours , some object to the smell of isocynates in the morning for instance. I'm not sure how many borrow money to complete there projects. It's very easy to encounter cost over runs. This would add considerably to ones costs.

    It looks to me we may be confusing shell material cost to finished boat cost. But that's for a whole new thread.
     
  7. groper
    Joined: Jun 2011
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    groper Senior Member

    Sure, the time vs money trade is not worth it in many circumstances. I would never attempt it if i had to rent a shed, pay for skilled labour, or the energy i have in youth. Once you price in all the fitout equipment and rig, there could easily be well over $250k in one of teh above designs... this is why they cost what they do!

    So the sensible decision to build or not needs to consider all of the above, and if you dont have ways around all of the above problems, then building yourself is a poor choice. If you can find solutions to the problems, and find ways of keeping costs down, then you can trade your time effectively. ALot of guys building boats for example, run businesses and write off many of the costs as tax deduction costs to their business - illegal we know, but it doesnt stop many from doing it and its very difficult to get caught. They will even use some of their staff to help with unskilled tasks on their private project, not just the materials.

    So different circumstances can mean vastly different costs in real terms to the person building. If i was a retiree with a bad back and living in a block of apartments in the city - id be absolutely insane to attempt a large build like this, and it would take a pretty special person to even get it half finished in this situation - which is why we see so many give up...
     
  8. Baltic Bandit

    Baltic Bandit Previous Member

    Well since you had to buy the tools - that cost has to be included in it since most do not have the tools.

    Same with shed costs because even if you built it in your backyard, you were paying taxes and mortage on that land and did not have it for family use. And it is a cost that properly needs to be accounted for.

    As for the quality of the build - well we have to take your word for it - but there simply are not that many homebuilt boats that SELL FOR $300k. Asking price is very different than final selling price.
     
  9. catsketcher
    Joined: Mar 2006
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    Location: Australia

    catsketcher Senior Member

    Light and fast

    One of the problems here is that you just can't get a stock boat that is light and speedy and simple. The ex charter cats are often almost double the weight of a typical light cruiser and usually don't have centreboards and nice rigs and are filled with paraphenalia. So to be able to afford one you need to build it if you can't afford someone else to do it for you.

    Baltic - I don't know where Parus is but over here in Oz many of the homebuilt Schionnings, Pescotts, Chamberlins, Farriers and Graingers are better quality than factory built with very good layups and superb finishes. They are certainhly much faster than anything stock apart from the Outremer. As for what they go for - I don't know as I don't know - but the brokers are pricing a good quality 40ft example often at around $300 000 and they want their money so I guess they are getting something like that.

    My friend retired 5 years early and built a beautiful 13.5m Schionning. Cost him $200 000 in materials and similar examples are priced at $500 000. He got to build a boat instead of slogging around in a coal mine - worth it for him.

    cheers

    Phil
     
  10. oldsailor7
    Joined: May 2008
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    oldsailor7 Senior Member

    BB said:- "you were paying taxes and mortage on that land and did not have it for family use."
    If you didn't have it for family use----then where were you living. :rolleyes:
    If you could build in your own backyard and you had no time constraints you could buy your materials as you went along as the finances became available. If you were retired you could work full time on it. If you have a family member to help it's even better, even if the help is not experienced, four hands are better than two.
    Two hours a night after work plus ten or more hours on the weekends makes the build go long nicely, and the feeling of accomplishment in producing an almost living entity is one of great satisfaction. Many designs, with work well planned, can be built very quickly, so more complex ones should be avoided if possible.:cool:
     
  11. groper
    Joined: Jun 2011
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    groper Senior Member

    Exactly!

    This is the 2nd main reason for building - after not having enough money outright to buy new OR a good used boat! As the build takes alot of time, you can keep throwing surplus money at it and get it done eventually... its like building a nest egg at the same time creating something of pride and beauty...

    Or you could spend your money down the pub each afternoon and waste your time watching TV?
     
  12. oldsailor7
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    oldsailor7 Senior Member

    "Or you could spend your money down the pub each afternoon"

    Now 'yer talkin'. :D
     
  13. Timothy
    Joined: Oct 2004
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    Timothy Senior Member

    Perhaps the main reason most of us build, or otherwise tinker with boats, is that we enjoy doing it, and that is as good a reason as any.
     
  14. waikikin
    Joined: Jan 2006
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    waikikin Senior Member

    Pretty valid point Groper, I've built/fittted out a few for myself & it's like a commitment to an enforced savings plan, sometime I sold them(& paid tax on) before completion for a good price:) & got to use some for fun & live-aboard too & still sold them for good.
    I think Aus & NZ might be a very different market to the US, maybe anecdotally backed up by pricing to yachtworld etc. There's been some similarities during the GFC cycle but nowhere near the USA..... boats seem to depreciate more like cars, not sure on Europe though. Maybe Aus/NZers back themselves & each other plus we are spoiled & a lucky country to a great degree with pedigree designers who have catered to self builders with good back up & materials strategies/supply.

    All the best from Jeff

    PS: But if there was a Crowther 38 in foam sandwich in every bay on the East Coast for sale at 25K I don't think it would be worth building new......
     

  15. groper
    Joined: Jun 2011
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    groper Senior Member

    IF that boat was available over here, id buy it regardless of what i wanted :)

    A bargain is a bargain, no matter if its real estate, a motor vehicle, or a widget thingamebob...
     
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