Buccaneer 28 Trimaran plans.

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by oldsailor7, Apr 17, 2010.

  1. redreuben
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    redreuben redreuben

    A lot of bloody hours went into finding those plans and you lot stamp your feet like you have some sort of entitlement.
    BACK OFF !

    Yes, i'm annoyed !
     
  2. Boat Design Net Moderator
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    Boat Design Net Moderator Moderator

    It appears communication is breaking down over the plans discussed here and this thread has become quite heated in the last page or so. The forums here aren't intended to be a place where people jab at each other. Let's please try and get this thread back to a polite and hopefully productive discussion and try to respect all fellow members. Thanks.
     
  3. oldsailor7
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    oldsailor7 Senior Member

    Thank you Mr Moderator for your calming influence.
    I had considered Red Reuben to be a friend and am rather taken aback by his outburst.
    He is right about I "can't" rather than "wont" restore the plans from the PDFs.
    I have just pulled out my blow ups and reviewed them again. The sheets showing the lines for the hull and float frames are definitely usable with a bit of care.
    However all the details and written information, in Locks small handwriting, are completely indecipherable, even with a powerful magnifying glass (which I have). Try sheet 5 for instance. I defy anyone to work out that lot without a great deal of dangerous guesswork. I would love to be able to de-code it all, but
    I don't have that magical skill. I can't---- not Won't.
     
  4. redreuben
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    redreuben redreuben

    Sorry Paddy but all this hassling of SS is not reasonable, he has done his bit.
    I can read sheet 5 no problem on the computer screen.
    We have the JPEGS that is way more than we had before SS paid for them to be scanned. We have legible instructions and materials list, we have full size templates.
    So less bitching and more effort.
     
  5. redreuben
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    redreuben redreuben

    PDF's !
    I'll get it right one day !
     
  6. Kailani
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    Kailani Senior Member

    Oldsailor7, try opening the PDF with Photoshop and adjust the levels. Cheap monitors hide light tones that are close to white.
     
  7. buzzman
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    buzzman Senior Member

    I don't add any fuel to any fire - but who has the "original" of the scans made by SS?

    Are the PDFs referred to by RR the same thing?

    What I mean is, were the original paper docs scanned and outputted as a PDF file, or in some other format which was then converted to PDF?

    I'm a self-taught graphic designer with full Photoshop and Adobe Acrobat, so I have a bit of an understanding of these things.

    Can someone answer this question for me? :)
     
  8. oldsailor7
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    oldsailor7 Senior Member

    YES.
    AFAIK, SS obtained the plans together with the old B28 which he bought and is restoring.
    So far so good.
    Now those plans would be at least 42 yrs old, and if they were anything like my B24 plans, would be in a pretty rough state. They would probably be OK enough for SS,s use. They were scanned in order to produce the PDFs. That is something quite different from simply copying them full size at a print shop.
    Simply blowing the PDFs up is not satisfactory, as I have proved.
    If RRs expert can size them up in a highly professional way, then all is well and good. We shall just have to wait and be patient.
    This does not personally affect me, as I have had my day with the B28, as shown in my avatar. I just want this excellent design to be available to all.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2013
  9. Kailani
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    Kailani Senior Member

    Not that different. It's more common to scan and print now than use a real optical blueprint machine. As the bits are scanned into the machine, different pdf settings can be as good or lower quality than a copy made at that time.

    You said "even with a powerful magnifying glass (which I have)" and mention blowing the PDFs up. How did you print them? I'd go back to the PDF and review it on screen zoomed in and using photoshop to open it and adjust levels before printing. With light grays, plotters can lose the light shades. They use dots of black and lighter grays, even blown up, are sometimes lost or there are too few dots spread out to reproduce faithfully. Adjusting the levels and curves of the source image makes a big difference in how the plot comes out.
     
  10. oldsailor7
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    oldsailor7 Senior Member

    Kailani.
    I suppose you are right----but I am not that clever. :rolleyes:
     
  11. 2far2drive
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    2far2drive Senior Member

    ok, I work in IT field and have for the past 8 years so let me set something straight for all of you....

    PDF is nothing but a form of document type/encoding. All document types have limitations and specific document functions that they are designed to do.

    PDF is an EXCELLENT document type for boat plans as it makes them universally viewable yet UNEDITABLE by most programs.

    OK next lesson. Large format blueprint scanners, commonly produced by HP, Xerox and the famous Oce can scan to multiple formats, including PDF. When I scan blueprints or whatever large drawings on them, I get FULL SIZE PDFs of the scan. They copy EXACTLY what they see, same size, same scale. Meaning, they are perfectly capable of being used to build a boat. You can find the smallest of errors (1-3mm) by printing the pdf back out if you use the full size frame patterns but for builders like me, I don't care. My whacky jigsawing producses more than that after a few beers.

    I have seen the pdfs in question, their sheet sizes were 36x48, the same size the plans were drawn on IIRC.

    As for the plans of the boat, they were not acquired for the restoration of the boat. They came with the boat and those are the same plans that were used to build the original boat.The planset is complete with materials list and full building instructions.

    The only way they can be rescanned by me and done right, is with Seastallion's permission. I would even be willing to help pay for this (hopefully with old Kinkos contacts it would be half cost) but even I am loosing my patience for all of this and certain people chomping at the bit, ready to resell at his marked up price. Getting the proper scans would set one back, at full price, about $100 and that is all they would need. $25 bucks would be plans on dvd with postage. I would bet they will be sold for x4 that cost. Im starting to wonder Oldsailor, if you were such good friends with Lock, why don't you have one single piece of a planset laying around somewhere? If they were mine, Id make them free to the world, downloadable on this very site and the shame would be yours if you attempt to resell them.
     
  12. Kailani
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    Kailani Senior Member

    It's easy enough to open and edit with Photoshop unless there is some security set on the pdf file.

    The scans I've had were really a single image per page inside a pdf container file. There are different compression settings from zero loss to high compression, at least 5 choices offered by the scanner machine. When compression is set, it can be a JPEG file inside the PDF or it can be loss-less compression.

    Opening the PDF with Photoshop the choice is either to
    -- open Pages which converts each page to an image at the resolution you set or
    -- open Images out of the pdf which opens the actual images at their scan resolution contained within the PDF.

    Then you can adjust contrast or do adjustment layers for levels over parts that are lighter or edit whatever needs editing before printing to get a good reprint.
     
  13. oldsailor7
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    oldsailor7 Senior Member

    2F2D.
    How can you be so naive.
    Quote."Im starting to wonder Oldsailor, if you were such good friends with Lock, why don't you have one single piece of a planset laying around somewhere? If they were mine, Id make them free to the world, downloadable on this very site and the shame would be yours if you attempt to resell them."Quote.
    EG:- "why don't you have one single piece of a planset laying around somewhere?"
    What an assumption.:eek:
    Answer. Because I ceased to be Locks North American agent in Oct 1977 and all his plans etc: that I had, were handed over to the new American agent. Except my own B24 plans, which I bought with my own money,in early 1970.
    Why do you assume I would have access to them after that. ???

    Quote. "I'd make them free to the world,"Quote.
    You can't "make them free to the world".:rolleyes: You can only pay them to take them away.
    Anyone who is successful in business understands this.
    Producing a paper plans package takes time and money.
    Surely someone is entitled to recoup their expenses in time and money to print, prepare, package and ship paper plans which are accurate and usable.
    Sending them a CD means they have to take the CD to a print shop and have the plans printed themselves, which costs them money, with the possibility that the print shop fails to provide prints of a good quality. I know what I am talking about in that instance.
    Quote."Getting the proper scans would set one back, at full price, about $100 and that is all they would need. $25 bucks would be plans on dvd with postage. I would bet they will be sold for x4 that cost." Quote.
    What a rotten assumption.:eek:
    I was selling the B24 plans for $150.00 when other 24 ft plans were selling for "x4 that cost". Only one person ever complained about that price, and he was shouted down by other satisfied buyers.

    Hundreds of would be builders/sailors are waiting to have the availability of the B28 plans. Only SS and yourself have the ability to do that at this time. .

    Why don't you just get on and do it.
     
  14. buzzman
    Joined: May 2011
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    buzzman Senior Member

    Well, it's not that easy to 'clean up' the plans.

    Someone sent me a copy of Sheet 2, in full size, as a PDF.

    I converted it to TIFF format in Photoshop and 'part cleaned' it up - basically just removed the worst of the marks, foxing and tape marks - but have made no attempt to reconcile the slightly out of alignment sections where the parts of the original were not properly aligned prior to scanning.

    Then I converted that back to a PDF file - which is now 66Mb in size...!!!

    Saved a JPEG version and reduced it to 72dpi (screen resolution) and that is still 1.2Mb - only just able to upload it here.

    For what it's worth, that little bit of effort took me 4hrs. And it's only half the job. On one sheet. Of five....

    So can everyone please get a bit of perspective on this...??

    In order to restore all 5 sheets to a form that can be used as full-size templates (as per the original blueprints) it is going to take whoever does it several days worth of effort.

    And I can't promise that I can be bothered......my right wrist is killing me from all the 'mouse work' on this little bit...

    But let me assure anyone doubters, the recently scanned PDF files *can* be cleaned up and perhaps one day made available as per Lock's original.

    At least a few people have the "raw" scans, so they at least will probably not be lost. Unless half a dozen computer HDDs simultaneously self-destruct.

    So...patience, grasshoppers.... ;)

    :)
     

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  15. Gary Baigent
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    Gary Baigent Senior Member

    Very well done, Buzz.
    Having cleaned up many old plans and beaten up photographs, (for Jim Young and Light Brigade books) I know exactly what you're saying regarding time and concentration.
    Redreuben tried sending me some pdf's of B28 ... but obviously the files were too large to come through.
     
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