Buccaneer 24 Trimaran

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by Samnz, Dec 1, 2008.

  1. bruceb
    Joined: Nov 2008
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    bruceb Senior Member

    waterstays

    I weighed the stainless straps & hardware off my Buc 24 and compared it to 3/8 wire and ends- the total weight saved for all 4 was about 18 lbs. I thought there would be a greater difference, it looks as if Crowther kind of knew what he was doing:) I don't think the straps would ever fail, but the joint in the tubes is way too flexible. Materials and design have gotten so much better in the last 40 years that a well engineered composite beam is the way to go. I had an engineer friend look at capricorn's beam design, the quick answer (which I hope he will improve on) was as long as the attach points to the inner and outer hulls are proper, the web (sides) in the middle would be the first point of failure. We are still guessing at the total loads to put in the computer. For what ever that is worth? The deck/crossbeam attachment on the float is weakest point on the stock design, and gets worse with a little rot, like I found in my boat:( Easy enough to fix though, and it was still holding up after 30 years. Bruce
     
  2. ThomD
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    ThomD Senior Member

    The webs are the weak point. There are a lot of ways of improving on that, orient fiber 90 degrees; use a few bits of stringer to tie together the flanges, that's massive; increase the dimension, 1/4" would be a large improvement, keeping in mind the competition are using 3/4", use some bulkheads. Doing all the above wouldn't be the way to go, since some of them try to achieve the same thing, and it would be better to choose.

    Did you mean to say 3/8" wire? That is massive. Mine are 3/16", and that should (WAG) be for a a beam that is way stronger than Capricorn (no criticism, but Cap is like 1/3rd standard scant., whereas mine was designed for offshor standard sort of loads, though probably never see that in most cases). Also 18 pounds in the 8" width of Cap. beams is enough to apply about 96 feet of 3mm ply to your favorite charity, and if one compares to 3/16 wire weight the additional fiber would be more.

    It is important to separate whether the beams are stayed or not. Stayed beams operate more with compresion and the "other" loads are more fore and aft. So my preference would be more box beams with uniform wall structure, and more beam width than height. We already have lots of examples of unstayed beams in the thread.

    I am currently struggling with good methods to attach beams to floats. The project I have in mind for the moment works, right up to that point. Past experience makes me leary of beams that slide into sockets. Bolts can look crude, though I am open to a good version of that approach. I rally need something game changing to keep me from flying into the candle flame of a folding system with all that cost, weight, etc...
     
  3. bruceb
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    bruceb Senior Member

    beaming about

    I weighed some 3/8 wire and ends because I had a piece about the right length, but I think 1/4 inch would not change but about 1 1/2 lbs a stay. I still tend to over build, I am used to lead draggers:) The stock Buc 24's tubes are loaded in compression and some shear at the inner connection, the outer end is rigidly fastened to the float. A little heavy and flexible, but simple to build and they don't fail. When I bought my boat, I intended to make it fold or swing the floats. I have not been quite as successful as I expected. Every system I have designed/experimented with has had serious flaws. The hinge systems for "swinging" the floats like the "firefly" looked like they belonged on something that moves dirt, and the "corsair" style would require a complete re-design of the beam attachment and load paths. I also would like to put lifting foils in the floats, but not until I have worked out the beam loading and folding. I am on an inland lake and I have to be able to trailer the boat, so a solid beam is not possible. We are not the only ones, the "seacart" looks great, but is harder to assemble than the buc 24 and takes at least two people. I have done my boat by myself, but it is not fun. I am still trying:!: Bruce
     
  4. ThomD
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    ThomD Senior Member

    You could probably get by with 3/16" wire, which would be 1/4th the weight? Not that there is anything much to be gained about a lighter wire unless you have to carry it yourself!

    I have the same problem with my KHSD. There are Dragonflies, Summersaults, and Buccs around there, racing off moorings. I think the KHSD would fit into that fleet with perfection. But I want to trailer sail different waters, not race. I have come to a decision that I am selling it and moving down to a smaller tri. I can build far better accommodations, easier set-up, and solve my storage problems all by moving to an 18.5 foot tri.

    I think the Kendrick 18 is perfect for me, but I don't think I can justify the expense of a folding system, plans, and the materials he uses vs. what I can do by myself. I haven't actually made the decision yet, though, but I am working on a design, that will be a bit like a Newick B2/Argonauta/Horizon, crossed with the load carrying of a Trailertri 18. If one scales the amas of the 80s onto a touring boat at 18.5 foot length on could get away with 13 foot amas, and with that, one doesn't even need a folding system. At the moment I am thinking 16 foot amas with more bouyancy but less weight than what the tremolino originally had.

    Ironically, to some extent, to move a fat 18 foot main hull one actually ends up with the same rig and amas as on my 24, so that would be a number of the same problems I currently have, if not the storage and berth size problems. If I didn't have a storage problem I might be inclined to simply build a new central hull and have two main hulls for different uses, one set of amas, and one rig.

    I picked up a cool lift truck that uses a winch to lift it's platform. Something a little more tricked out along that line would make positioning the full size amas a lot easier than two people. I have never managed to mount the amas by myself, or at least I don't remember it.
     
  5. oldsailor7
    Joined: May 2008
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    oldsailor7 Senior Member

    Buccaneer 24 plans

    I only have one set of Buccaneer 24 plans left, and when they have gone there will be no more. $150.00 shipping included. PM if interested.
     
  6. bruceb
    Joined: Nov 2008
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    bruceb Senior Member

    Lifting amas

    Thomd, I am not a weight lifter- I can't pick up but one end of my floats- however, my boat came with a crude but effective lift system. It would not work on a stock Buc 24, but mine doesn't have a cabin so the cars can ride over the "stored" position of the floats. You attach the pair of cars, tighten the lift ropes up , unfasten the float and roll it in or out and re-attach it. Very simple but a little slow. I have included a couple of pictures. My 24 has 3/16" shrouds, I think about right for the weight of the boat so 1/4" water stays seem about correct. Buc 24s seem to end up about 1400-1600 lbs plus three crew so the shrouds are supporting around 2/3 of that when the main hull is almost out of the water. The forward water stay carries most of the load, the rear could be smaller. I agree with your idea of a smaller boat, the boat I used most of any I ever owned was a very trailerable 19' monohull. It wasn't the best boat, but it was so easy to use I took it everywhere. I do like the size and performance of the Buc 24 when I am sailing though, and I intend to sail some coastal and maybe even the Bahamas; the extra space and ability will be nice then. Bruce
     

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  7. Catabolic
    Joined: Jan 2009
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    Catabolic Tusitala

    I'm interested in a set, can you contact me with cash xfer details etc, pls?
     
  8. oldsailor7
    Joined: May 2008
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    oldsailor7 Senior Member

    Buc 24 plnas

    I am sorry------ They have all gone.
     
  9. Catabolic
    Joined: Jan 2009
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    Catabolic Tusitala

    Old Sailors Plans

    Pity, missed out... never mind. It would have been easier than re-inventing the wheel.
     
  10. Samnz
    Joined: Nov 2008
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    Samnz Senior Member

    How many sets did you have 6 monthes ago? do you know much about the bucc 28? or plans for it? I have seen one for sale a long time ago but there seem to be less 28s than 24s.
     
  11. Sea Stallion
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    Sea Stallion Junior Member

    Like these?
     

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  12. Samnz
    Joined: Nov 2008
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    Samnz Senior Member

    yes thats the one. Do you know what sized bolts are spec'd for the beam to float connection? Also what weight are they? Would it be faster than the 24?
     
  13. Sea Stallion
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    Sea Stallion Junior Member

    The bolts the hold the ss strap across the crossbeam to the float are 8 inch long by 3/8 inch diameter. Displacement is 4000 lb and payload is 2000 lb. Not exactly sure of the completed weight. I would suspect it to be faster than a B24 by mere virtue of greater LWL.
     
  14. bruceb
    Joined: Nov 2008
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    bruceb Senior Member

    28 beams

    What size are the beams on the 28? Bruce
     

  15. Sea Stallion
    Joined: Mar 2009
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    Sea Stallion Junior Member

    5.5 inch diameter and slightly over 5ft long.
     
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