Buccaneer 24 Builders Forum

solid beams?

rcr, are you fabricating solid beams?

 

no not solid beams as such. the original beams were a laminated wood box beam about 120mm x 120mm. The centre void is 100mm x 37mm and i am using hardwood stubs to join the beams that i have cut back together. In the rear beam there was already hardwood blocks bolted through the hull where the waterstay passes underneath it so i removed these and made full length hardwood pieces to go across the back and effectively make the beam, on the hull, solid. I did this cause the outboard motor swings off the beam and the main traveller is also supported there. It also ties the whole beam together now so no chance of failure points. A bit of an overkill but its not adding too much weight and i can rest easy knowing the beam is strong.

 

Bruce, I'm very interested in your final verdict of the boards.
I also remember you thought of installing a canting system on the mast, did you ever made that?

 

Beam rot

RC, I had the same problem with my rear beam. When I removed the rear aluminum cross beam, the wood support timber was so rotten I could put my hand through the middle. I think water gets in from inside the tubes and around them and has no where to drain, so it eventualy finds its way into the wood. Your all wood beam is probably better, but I would suggest anyone with the alloy tubes to check the aft wood support beam.
Your rig is almost the same size as mine, including the prod, but I don't have a full hoist main yet. Yours looks nice.
Hasyb, I ran out of time to cant the rig, so maybe next season. I know the boards work quite well, but for me on the small lake where I race, boat handing is very important on the short legs we run. Anything that slows down tacks and jibes around marks costs time, and the course legs are not long enough to make up lost time or position. The first board I made seems too large and I haven't yet made a smaller set that might be a little easier to handle. (same length but a shorter cord) On the plus side, the boat feels as if it grows about five feet when I put the A-board down. The boat tracks very straight and doesn't heel or bury the float nearly as much- maybe by half or more. I haven't sailed over about 12kts with the A-board down, but it feels as if much faster would lift the float clear. I think that is more drag/lift than I want, so the smaller boards should be about right. It is a whole new experience B

 

thats what happened with the beam Bruce. This is my first timber i have owned and didnt really look into it much when i bought her but the rot started in my beam where the outboard motor was hanging off the rear beam. Th previous owner just had it through bolted through the beam with no support and it crushed some of the timber and allowed water in. Then it couldnt escape. I could see that the timber had been crushed but didnt think too much off it at the time. Now with the full length hardwood it will all be supported so future issues should be non existant.

 

Old boats

I was quite amazed at how little was left holding the rear beam in place, and yet nothing ever moved- the Buc seems very well engineered. I don't think Crowther expected them to still be sailing 40 years later
Be very careful centering your beam- I thought I was but I still ended up about 3/8" off center, which is magnified at the outer ends where the floats attach. In my defense I don't have a place to work that allows the boat to be assembled, I can only do that when ready to launch. "X"ing it found the mistake quickly once I assembled it, but that is a little late I guess it doesn't matter once we are flying the main hull? B

 

Thanks Bruce,
For the canting system I was thinking of digging up some mainsheet blocks of a beachcat, do you already have an idea of how you're going to make yours.

 

more complications

I do happen to have a couple (or three) extra main sheet sets, but of course, I have to shorten the stays to use them. This winter, when I have the rig down I will shorten them, but I wont get to test them until spring. The old H-16 block sets are pretty clumsy, but I do already have them and they are expensive new. As much as the Buc heels, canting should help. I have never sailed a boat with a canting rig, so there will be a learning curve for me.
Is it usual to do something to retain the mast on the step ball? Also, how much purchase should I install? I don't have any local examples to copy, so any input is appreciated.
I also think I am going to have to carry a fourth crew to run the A-boards, running backs and canting blocks- and maybe fetch beer I hope the speed gain is enough to make up for their added weight.
B

 

Nah, Bruce, you can do it all, comes naturally ... after a few foul ups.
If you look at my last posting on the superb and marvelous NZilla, (in AC thread) there's a shot of Groucho's canting starboard shroud setup. I made the blocks (saved plenty, sheaves cost a few cents) with thin ply core then laminating on many uni directional rovings, plus SS pins; there is a cam cleat on the block and another at cockpit, you can take your choice, solo or with crew. I have a fail/safe Spectra line there just in case.
There should be no problems with mast step ball; you're not going to cant the rig 45 degrees, (which would be tricky) more like 10-15.
With the B24's dihedral, you should be able to sail with the windward board down, tip occasionally touching water, no need to run around. Cheers.

 

I make a lot of blocks using aluminum cheeks and found a wood lathe makes great sheaves. The plastic can be sourced from an industrial supplier, a few feet of round stock makes a lot of sheaves, plain bronze bearings can be found at a larger fastener provider.

 

To purchase or more?

Thanks Gary, I had not spotted that pic. How much total purchase should I use? I have blocks and plenty of extra sheaves, so I can build about anything necessary. I have built cheeks out of aluminum, but never tried carbon. I guess I should learn something new
Thanks for the comments, B

 

beam questions

RC, I have some questions about your wood beams. As I understand it, your beam/ beams? (front and rear the same?) have a top and bottom board about 42mm thick and 100mm wide with a front and rear skin of 10mm x 120mm. If so, what kind of wood/ply are they constructed from? Is there any structural glass used, and so forth. They sound as if they are not much, if any heavier than the more common aluminum beams like mine, and more versatile. I know they can rot, but alloy has its issues also, and wood is much easier to modify. Just wondering B

 

Hi Bruce. I don't have a clue what timber was used in making if the beams. Basically inside the beam is 2 rows of laminated timber. Each row consists of 3 lengths of 30mmx30mm timber glued one on to of each other and then a 10mm strip glued to that to make it 100mm. Then the 10mm plywood box is built around it. It is sheathed in glass but nothing structural. Interesting though is the attachment to the amas. The internal bullhead is extended through the deck and then into the beam. Then it's all glued and bolted. I'm on night shift so i'm probably not making much sense but when I get home next week I'll post a couple of pictures.

 

Beam details

Thanks RC, pics would help. Now I am curious how the grain is oriented. It seems a little unusual, but since it has worked for 40 years, it must be ok. We have some nice Douglas Fir available locally that would seem well suited for a beam, and I have a project in mind. B

 

I had Douglas Fir crossbeams on my Piver Nugget and had no problems with them.