Buccaneer 24 Builders Forum

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by oldsailor7, Jul 22, 2009.

  1. oldsailor7
    Joined: May 2008
    Posts: 2,097
    Likes: 41, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 436
    Location: Sydney Australia

    oldsailor7 Senior Member

    Tom.
    Why would I treat you any differently than anyone else.:?:
    Of course I will sell you my last set of plans. You know the details.
    I am getting out of the business exactly because it is too much like a business---and I am supposed to be retired. :eek:
    Perhaps you would like to take up the slack and distribute the plans in a more efficient way. I would be pleased to see that happen. After all you are just a young bloke and I would be delighted to pass the torch on to you. :D
    I just don't want to see this brilliant little boat die. All Lockies other sailing multihulls are irretrievably archived. At least we can save this one.
     
  2. tomfindlay
    Joined: Mar 2007
    Posts: 14
    Likes: 1, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 11
    Location: Edinburgh Scotland

    tomfindlay Tom Findlay

    I'd be thinking about making the sheer clamp and the chine logs from the same ply as the skin. I take it from the photos I've seen that she is of double chine construction.
    The reason for this is to avoid the problem of water penetration between two different types of wood, which expand and contract at different rates and cause joins and joints to break their seal.

    The other issue is the dagger board casing, or swing keel casing. I'd prefer to make leeboards instead, which would avoid building a casing and having a big hole in the hull.
    It would also allow more space in the cabin and save the freak out of hitting something at 12 knots and puncturing the hull as the dagger board would cause havoc...

    Another issue is the rigging, I'd prefer a gunter rig, for ease of masting and unmasting especially in canal systems. This means the Leesails could not be purchased and perhaps more expense, although I could probably buy a second hand complete system with mast gaff and sails...
     
  3. redreuben
    Joined: Jan 2009
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    Likes: 150, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 349
    Location: South Lake Western Australia

    redreuben redreuben

    Tom,
    have a look at K designs KD650 for a modern take on the Gunter rig, from memory you can buy plans for the rig separately for about $25.
    RR
    ps if you don't like the dagger in the main hull perhaps consider boards in the floats, bruceb has been experimenting with this and Ray Kendrick does it on a few of his boats, leeboards -bad idea very inefficient
     
  4. redreuben
    Joined: Jan 2009
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    Location: South Lake Western Australia

    redreuben redreuben

    PS. Chine logs and sheer clamps from ply ? 50% of the timber will be cross grain- useless.
    With epoxy coating differential swell is not an issue, if it bothers you use the same timber but stay with solid stock please !
    I'm beginning to worry about you ! :)
     
  5. tomfindlay
    Joined: Mar 2007
    Posts: 14
    Likes: 1, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 11
    Location: Edinburgh Scotland

    tomfindlay Tom Findlay

    You can buy ply with all the layers running the same way, people use it to make masts and other spars all the time, and also sheer clamps and chine logs...
    its not that unusual...

    The main hull is quite narrow, why would you say that leeboards are inefficient?
    Hereshoff used them in designs, so did Griffiths, and they have been used since the Vikings arrived in Scotland with them in the 9th century.

    They would take a lot of worry out of the daggerboard skelping something and causing serious damage... You would barely see them and they would be so much easier in the building process than making a casing on the keel...

    If I build this B24 I will never race it, it would only be for cruising. and putting both leeboards half down when tacking to windward might work quite well.
    But I don't know enough to make those calculations, but why inefficient?
     
  6. tomfindlay
    Joined: Mar 2007
    Posts: 14
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    Location: Edinburgh Scotland

    tomfindlay Tom Findlay

    Yeah thanks for that link. Interesting looking gunter rig, and he designed it for cheapness, but it lowers the centre of gravity considerably and looks
    cool...
     
  7. John Jolly
    Joined: Oct 2010
    Posts: 116
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    Location: United Kingdom

    John Jolly Senior Member

    I still have the frames! the wood will no doubt be used for other projects in due course - :eek: You could call me the constant builder as I always need to be making/building something to keep my mind occupied. I have shelved all boat building projects for the time being, maybe indefinitely, the important thing, I still have a little sailing boat to get me out on the water.

    Off Topic - This is way OT but its what has kept me busy in the last few months designing & building a scaled down 1920's Bugatti 35 Race car, ply monocouqe construction with metal subframes at front & rear, Honda trail wheels and power from a 6.5hp engine. A little more work, plank on frame the boat tail & some mechanics. Not boaty, but shows the builders art and may bring a smile to one's face. Here are a couple of pics.

    DSCN2186.jpg

    DSCN2192.jpg DSCN2195.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

  8. redreuben
    Joined: Jan 2009
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    Location: South Lake Western Australia

    redreuben redreuben

    Tom,
    Quick buy John Jolly's frames !
    Leeboards are inefficient because they have no endplate effect from the bottom of the hull so they ventilate badly, you can compensate by making deeper but that might be getting unwieldy !
    Holding them in position without a case is a challenge I would rather not deal with also, but you sound like you have it sussed so just my 2 bobs worth.
    RR
     
  9. redreuben
    Joined: Jan 2009
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    Location: South Lake Western Australia

    redreuben redreuben

    Oh, unidirectional plywood ? Never heard of it, and I don't really get it ? Why not just use solid stock ?
     
  10. bruceb
    Joined: Nov 2008
    Posts: 1,249
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    Location: atlanta,ga

    bruceb Senior Member

    solid wood!

    Tom, My Buc is over 35 years old, and has had NO problems with the solid wood stringers- bad ply-yes:mad:, I wouldn't think of making them out of ply. And solid wood is cheap! Try cutting a 3/4"x3/4x 2' ply piece (stringer size) and breaking it over your knee- and compare it to the same in solid wood. The Buc, (and most multis), are too fast for lee boards. An offset dagger or centerboard is possible, I don't think a cruiser would enjoy messing with my float daggers, (at least their crew wouldn't;)) although they might be worthwhile if you sail in shallow water. I do.
    Most of the rigs you are considering are not very close-winded, and a fast tri spends much of its time with the apparent wind in front of the beam. Between lee-boards and one of those rigs, you would destroy most of the advantages of a light tri. Partly its a matter of scale- the rig as designed or a three stay rotating rig like mine are both tall enough to get above the first 10 feet or so of surface effect wind, and as such are in "good" air. They are both still small and light enough to raise and lower with out too much effort. Any thing shorter, even with more area, is really going to compromise performance. B
     
  11. caiman
    Joined: Dec 2008
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    Location: Wales

    caiman Junior Member

    How's this for a compromise? Tom buys the set of plans from OS7 to do what he wants with for the full amount.OS7 refunds Tom half the money paid for the plans when Tom's new Buc hits the water?
    Another Buc is born!

    Cheers
     
  12. bruceb
    Joined: Nov 2008
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    Location: atlanta,ga

    bruceb Senior Member

    refund?

    I think I would donate the other $75 when it is launched- but I would expect to get a ride on it if I am ever in England:) B
     
  13. bruceb
    Joined: Nov 2008
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    Location: atlanta,ga

    bruceb Senior Member

    Nice car

    JJ, I have a friend that has a real one, and that is a very good replica- wood or anything else. Nice! B
     
  14. tomfindlay
    Joined: Mar 2007
    Posts: 14
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    Location: Edinburgh Scotland

    tomfindlay Tom Findlay

    Yeah I think old sailors advice which has kept others to refer to...
    is...
    stick to the original plans...
     

  15. Corley
    Joined: Oct 2009
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    Location: Melbourne, Australia

    Corley epoxy coated

    One valid approach to protecting daggerboard cases is to have a sacrificial tip on the daggerboard it's not a bad idea the other option would be to put a pivoting centreboard case in the boat if you use a gasket to cover the open slot behind the board the performance penalty would not be too bad.

    On the formula 40 trimaran I'm building Kurt Hughes has a sacrificial tip on the daggerboard as well as crushable foam insert if the worst comes to the worst mind you the board is over 11 feet long so serious loads there.
     
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