Buccaneer 24 Builders Forum

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by oldsailor7, Jul 22, 2009.

  1. tomfindlay
    Joined: Mar 2007
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    Location: Edinburgh Scotland

    tomfindlay Tom Findlay

    I spent today reading every forum on the B24 including this one which took me four and half hours to read.
    Whats happened to J Jolly? he seems to have faded after such a strong start and so many views and opinions...
    Is he still building?

    Tom
     
  2. tomfindlay
    Joined: Mar 2007
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    Location: Edinburgh Scotland

    tomfindlay Tom Findlay

    Buccaneer 24 building plans.

    When i was thinking about building an Eventide, the very famous Maurice Griffiths design, I was very glad to discover that the Eventide Association simply post you out a CD for five pounds postage, which contained all the drawings and construction plans in PDF and Jpeg format, then you simply walk into the copy shop and get the drawings you need printed out for a few pounds.

    I have asked Bruce B if he would consider giving me a copy of his CD which contains all the plans, or perhaps if there are just a few PDF's files, then simply send them to me by email.

    I know the Old Sailor has sold forty copies over the past few years, and he has agreed to sell me a copy, but we have seamless simple technology now and Bruce's digital files seem a better way to go, as you can then run off as many as you need for convenience, when transferring onto ply.

    I know its a kinda cloak and dagger copyright sensitive area, but hell I'm sure Lock would be happy to know that the Buccaneer lives on and on in digital format and that any relatively poor man like me can afford to get a copy of the plans and attempt to build one.

    To be honest 150 Aussie dollars is a lot for me, for sure I know modern plans are expensive compared. But I just think they should be free excluding postage of course.

    Its xmas after all lol...
     
  3. Corley
    Joined: Oct 2009
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    Location: Melbourne, Australia

    Corley epoxy coated

    For every home build boat project started only a depressingly small proportion make it to completion. I'm not building a Bucc24 but I can see why so many boats dont make it to completion you have to be the kind of person who appreciates small rewards and milestones along the way to make it happen.

    I have a friend who has nearly completed a 40' schionning cat I admire his patience he has worked on the boat nearly full time for 4 years. In many ways a boat like a bucc is so much easier much less surface area to fair and much quicker rewards but its still not a cakewalk.
     
  4. cavalier mk2
    Joined: Mar 2010
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    Location: Pacific NW North America

    cavalier mk2 Senior Member

    If you don't need demounting for the voyage mentioned a small Tristar or Cross would have more capacity and likely less expense than the stayed alum tubes of the bucc 24. Not as fast light but better with a load. Nicol's 25 Clipper design similar to a Cross made many successful ocean passages but you'd have to bug Alan Nicol to print out plans.
     
  5. tomfindlay
    Joined: Mar 2007
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    Location: Edinburgh Scotland

    tomfindlay Tom Findlay

    There will be lots more old sailor, you told us in a post that you have sold 40 copies of them, so I expect there are many floating around the globe, and Bruce B has them in digital format and perhaps he might see fit to let potential builders have a copy.

    But if you want to donate that very last set of plans to me in Edinburgh, I will have them scanned and put them up on the web so that anybody can have free access to look at them, and if they want they can also download and have them printed quite cheaply in a copy shop that does that kind of printing.

    What do you think old sailor?
     
  6. cavalier mk2
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    cavalier mk2 Senior Member

    Easy on the mainsheet there Tom, old sailors need stores and grog. Now if we could get those things donated we'd all have more time at sea. I've bought other plans from oldsailor and always found them a great deal and value.
     
  7. oldsailor7
    Joined: May 2008
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    Location: Sydney Australia

    oldsailor7 Senior Member

    "What do you think old sailor?"

    Och Ay the Noo. I think ye're a canny Scotsman. :D
     
  8. cavalier mk2
    Joined: Mar 2010
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    Location: Pacific NW North America

    cavalier mk2 Senior Member

    An Lock was an uncanny draughtsman.....
     
  9. tomfindlay
    Joined: Mar 2007
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    Location: Edinburgh Scotland

    tomfindlay Tom Findlay

    Well if you have sold 40 sets as you say, then that's 6000 canny dollars worth of stores and grog, all on the back of the intellectual property rights of a dead man.

    Sure folks will buy them, but you are, or have been up until now, marketing these plans very successfully and cannily and no doubt profitably, on this forum for quite a wee while now, and that is commercial enterprise, whatever way you want to configure it old sailor.

    Of course you have made a major contribution to the Buccaneer 24 Builders Forum, and you offer good quality advice and encouragement, I've read every entry over the weekend, and I'm very grateful to obtain that knowledge and yr wisdom, but it doesn't make what you have been doing right.

    I think you should consider my offer to digitise the plans and let potential builders print off sets if they so wish.

    I think that's an honourable way to keep Locks design permanently in print, and whoever actually owns the copyright will probably be happy about that.
     
  10. cavalier mk2
    Joined: Mar 2010
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    cavalier mk2 Senior Member

    Most of those old copyrights have expired and were not renewed. For the cost of prints or a digital cd you could get plans for a Piver from The Mariners Museum. If you went your route with the bucc plans you'd be facing the same hazards as Old Sailor.....Now most people don't do things like that unless they know there are no hazards involved.....Your campain needs a slogan. How about "Brigands For Buccaneers" ?
     
  11. Corley
    Joined: Oct 2009
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    Location: Melbourne, Australia

    Corley epoxy coated

    Tom, If $150 is too much for you to handle how do you expect to build a boat? Thats literally one small batch of marine ply or a winch. Oldsailor is entitled to a small profit per sale without his efforts these plans would not be available at all.

    Thats not to mention the time he spent correcting sections of the plans that were too faint to read and the time he has spent supporting builders with information. If he was charging for his time that would equal a very small amount per hour.

    Oldsailor was a personal friend of Lock's and handled the plan sales for many years. Brett Crowther, Lock's son has not asked to collect any royalties for the sale of the plans and is not interested in selling plans for any of the older boats. If Lock Crowther's archived plans were available for sale then Oldsailor would save himself the effort of sending out these plans.
     
  12. kelldog
    Joined: Jun 2009
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    Location: Bakersfield, CA

    kelldog Junior Member

  13. tomfindlay
    Joined: Mar 2007
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    Location: Edinburgh Scotland

    tomfindlay Tom Findlay

    I don't know what the plans look like or how many of them there are, or how much it would cost to have them printed from a CD, but I very much doubt it would be anywhere near 150 dollars.

    Its not the money, its the principle in this case. Old Sailor is using boat design dot net to sell intellectual property, and not only the Buccaneer 24, I might add, and which he does not own, that does not belong to him, for I would imagine, a healthy profit, and that is not what this portal is about.

    I would imagine the administrator of this site would not approve of this kind of commercial conduct and behaviour, regardless of all the good will, encouragement, corrections made to the plans, the practical help, and other assistance that the old sailor provides.

    Surely there must be somebody in this forum who will provide the plans at cost plus postage, without wanting to make a profit and commercial gain out of me and for that matter Lock...
     
  14. tomfindlay
    Joined: Mar 2007
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    Location: Edinburgh Scotland

    tomfindlay Tom Findlay

    Yeah, I don't want to sound like some righteous lunatic about the cost of these plans and the way they are sold on this portal.

    But if old sailor really is retiring to the mountains and not selling anymore plans as he has stated, then I think its important to ensure that future potential builders can have access to these plans.

    I have asked old sailor to let me digitise his last set, but he is probably annoyed at my analysis of the way he currently sells them, I'm sorry about that. It offended my sensibility.

    I've asked Bruce B for a copy of his CD but have not received a reply as yet.

    I'm keen to see these plans and take a good hard look at the construction methodology.

    It certainly appeals to me to build like this, and I never thought about multihulls until I saw a dragonfly arrive a few weeks ago in Caleta on Fuerteventura which was heading for Martinque...
     

  15. redreuben
    Joined: Jan 2009
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    Location: South Lake Western Australia

    redreuben redreuben

    Fine, then don't buy them !

    YOU spend the time finding another set unsullied by oldsailers commercial exploitation, YOU make them fit for distribution, and YOU build a boat so YOU are prepared to answer the deluge of builders questions.
    I look forward to seeing the CD available here for $10.
    Perhaps you could do the same for the 28 as the scores of hours we have all put in trying to find a reprintable set have turned up nothing useable.
    of course you could buy plans for something else like a Tristar 24, a bargain at US$400 !
    RR
     
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