Buccaneer 24 Builders Forum

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by oldsailor7, Jul 22, 2009.

  1. peterchech
    Joined: Aug 2010
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    Location: new jersey

    peterchech Senior Member

    I second leecallen's request. Particularly helpful would be the cost just to build the hulls not including paint. The rest I could buy as I go, a little at a time.

    I have sourced ply etc but even with materials lists I always way underestimate when I build so someone who has actually done it would know much better than I.
     
  2. bruceb
    Joined: Nov 2008
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    bruceb Senior Member

    stock buc

    Peter, if you are on a budget, build it like it is designed! It really is best. Maybe 6mm bottom panels on the main hull, 4mm on the rest and the floats, and don't glass anything except the main hull up to the waterline and maybe the decks. My boat is 35+ years old, only the decks are glassed, (nothing on the hulls but epoxy and paint!) and I race it hard. There has been rot where water has gotten down through the decks, but that is more an upkeep issue. Mine is also built of fir ply which is rot prone in fresh water. 4mm meranti is about $40 a sheet or less around here, and it is strong, medium weight and quite durable. It would be my first choice, and the buc doesn't use that much of it:cool: Glassing both sides of thin ply is heavy, expensive, labor intensive, and just captures the moisture where it can't dry out. Thin ply boats flex and can not be completely sealed, water gets in at the edge of a panel, and rot forms where you can't see it or get at it to repair. Save your time and money and buy good ply and paint instead. Lee, I will try to put together sort of a cost estimate for the big parts. The materials sheet that comes with the plans is not too accurate for USA suppliers and has to be used only as a guideline. Crowther designed the boat around the length of three sheets of ply end to end and doesn't waste much at all. The rig can and should be modernized to take advantage of available spars and sails. If you are willing to shop hard, the parts can be had for much less than retail. B
     
  3. leecallen
    Joined: Jul 2011
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    Location: Buffalo, NY (USA)

    leecallen Junior Member

    B24 build cost

    Bruce, thank you, I would really appreciate that. I don't want to spend too much time thinking about this until I have an idea of the cost.

    Related question: Is a standard double garage big enough to build this? Actually about 4 feet of my garage is unavailable. So the usable space in my garage is 21x17 feet. That yields a diagonal of 27'. Just large enough to fit the main hull I guess.

    Lee
     
  4. leecallen
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    leecallen Junior Member

    B24 build cost

    BTW that comment explains a LOT.

    I will be sailing on Lake Erie, the Niagara River, and maybe Lake Ontario. So lots of fresh water, and of course rain.

    -Lee
     
  5. peterchech
    Joined: Aug 2010
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    Location: new jersey

    peterchech Senior Member

    Thanks for the advice bruce. I will consider foam amas since I know from my outrigger canoe that amas always remain somewhat damp inside. However that would add to cost :(

    I have an unusual building requirement in that I need to be able to finish the vaka in about 9 days. My father in law and I will be taking a week off of work to accomplish this. We only need to finish the exterior by then. Foils rigging akas amas interior etc can all be done later. We only have a suitable build space for 9the days, then it will be transported to the storage yard of my beach Catamaran club, outdoors and 1I hour away... so needless to say, I need to have all necessary materials ready before I start, as well as bulkheads cut, stringers scarfed, etc. An accurate list of how many sheets of ply are needed and how much epoxy to give the three coats everyone recommends would make this project possible and prevent me from overbuying and wasting money ;)
     
  6. bruceb
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    bruceb Senior Member

    space-the last frontier

    Guys, I don't want to seem rude:rolleyes:, but it is a 24' boat and the side and bottom panels are all of that. You need a space that is at least long enough to lay out the panels flat, scarf and glue them, and then hang them on the soon to be hull. If the weather is good, you could lay them out on a driveway or such, but at least for a few days, the main hull needs to be easy to work around. It helps if it can be started upside down and then rolled once the bottom and side panels have been fitted. It will take up a 24'x7'x5' space- all of it:D The floats are 21'x3'x2' and can be handled by two men. OS can probably give you better idea of time, but I think nine days is pretty optimistic. Yes, it COULD be done, but unless you are a very experienced builder and have perfect control of your epoxy system, you probably won't make your deadline. Two workers in a climate controlled shop could build most of a main hull in about a week, but I would expect to take three weeks or so full time with a part time helper, on a first time build and that does not include finishes or equipment. B
     
  7. leecallen
    Joined: Jul 2011
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    leecallen Junior Member

    B24 build cost

    Speaking to the space issue:

    Not rude -- candid, and that is what I need. Thanks.

    -Lee
     
  8. oldsailor7
    Joined: May 2008
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    oldsailor7 Senior Member

    Peter said:- ------" and how much epoxy to give the three coats everyone recommends would make this project possible and prevent me from overbuying and wasting money."------
    The little booklet on building with epoxy which I have included with your plans tells you how to calculate that. Ply sheets required are in the materials list. :D
     
  9. oldsailor7
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    oldsailor7 Senior Member

    Bruce pretty well nailed it on the building space issue.
    However with a bit of lateral thinking you can overcome that.
    IE:- Can you open the garage doors and rig up a plastic awning to extend your space outwards ? While building you need protection from the Sun as well as the Rain.
    All the frames can be cut out and edged prior to needing the bigger space. Same with the side panels--they can be quite safely butt plated on the floor, rather than scarfed. (We did, with no problems).

    Once the side panels are complete with gunnels chine logs and stringers attached, the transom and stem can be set in place. From that point it is then a very quick job to slide in and glue/screw the frames, starting from the centre out towards the ends.
    We actually did this in one hour---mind you we used a power stapler and quick setting epoxy glue. (recommended). A bit longer if you use screws or ring nails.
    With two of you working full time it shouldn't take you more than two or three days to bang out the basic main hull shell.

    The B24 really is a "Quick Build" affair. :)
     
  10. leecallen
    Joined: Jul 2011
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    leecallen Junior Member

    Thanks OS. I have been taking some measurements, I think I am okay with my workspace. Bruce said I need a 24x7 space. I know I need 24 feet in length -- plus some working space -- and I have that. I have 7 feet in width in most of the length, but not at the very ends. But I don't think I need it there.

    So at this point the biggest potential roadblock for me is the cost. That's assuming you have some plans available, or will, at some point.

    The whole "quick build" thing - that is fantastic news. Like I said, this will really be my first boat build. While I have a lot of experience with woodworking, I will be learning how to use new materials and construction techniques, and some of the tools.

    When you say "stapler" is that the same as a nail gun? Is it shooting staples or nails?

    Lee
     
  11. hoytedow
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    hoytedow Carbon Based Life Form

  12. oldsailor7
    Joined: May 2008
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    oldsailor7 Senior Member

    Do Not use mild steel or galvanized staples. We used phosphor bronze, epoxy coated staples. The instant heat generated from driving the staple momentarily softens the epoxy which then sets and locks in the staple legs. We used staples with 3/8" wide heads and of varying lengths to suit the job.
    It is very important to set the driving pressure so that the head is driven in flush to the surface, and the head is parallel to the grain of the ply but bridges the grain of the core. Too much pressure will cause the head to crush the underlying core and form a weak point. If you are using Epoxy glue, staples (or nails) only need to be 4" apart. Be very careful that the legs of the staples go into the underlying member, otherwise the legs of the staple will stick out through the ply and cause a splintery weak spot where water vapor can enter and start ROT.
     
  13. peterchech
    Joined: Aug 2010
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    Location: new jersey

    peterchech Senior Member

    Forgive my asking, but I just did some numbers. The buc 24 has 2000# displacement at waterline. It weighs usually around 1200#. Giving it about 800# payload. Woods' acorn, a 21' performance cat with accommodation in the hulls, weighs displaces 1500#, and weight 800# giving it a carrying capacity of 700#the with two or more berths. So in theory, the cat has 25% less materials, yet has almost as much carrying capacity. If the cat would be a cheaper build materials wise, and a faster build, yet have similar carrying capacity... what is the advantage of the buc (or tris generally?)

    Btw I am a little bias to tris emotionally, but I am tying to be as rational as possible here
     
  14. oldsailor7
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    oldsailor7 Senior Member

    It's a personal thing.
    I prefer Tris myself because I think they have a better safety record.
    I may be wrong.
     

  15. oldsailor7
    Joined: May 2008
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    oldsailor7 Senior Member

    I have just had a look at that Acorn----and I love it. :D
    It is simple to build, light and will have excellent performance.
    However it is wrong to compare it to the B24.
    They are as different as chalk and cheese. :eek:
     
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