Buccaneer 24 Builders Forum

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by oldsailor7, Jul 22, 2009.

  1. bruceb
    Joined: Nov 2008
    Posts: 1,223
    Likes: 41, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 214
    Location: atlanta,ga

    bruceb Senior Member

    Hi, I beg to differ- I have my whole Buc 33 rigged with dyneema, it has been for the last four seasons, and after the first season, I have only had to tighten the rig twice. I have all dyneema stays and running rigging, only the forestay with a furler on it is wire. I plan on changing the adjusting tackles on the stays this season, everything else looks ok. I live in the southern USA with a lot of sun in the summer and freezing in the winter, the boat is raced a couple of times a week most of the year so it gets full exposure. I did have some older Vectron side stay adjusters break that had been on my 24. I guess they were about 6 years old. The vectron seemed to deteriorate faster than the dyneema that was side by side with it.
    Just my experience!
    B
     
  2. patzefran
    Joined: Feb 2011
    Posts: 237
    Likes: 21, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: france

    patzefran patzefran

    I tried Dyneema as sea stay on two trimarans, it doesn't worked for me. But I pull very hard on my boats. Vectran don't need to retight but has to be protected from UV, this is not aproblem.
     
  3. bruceb
    Joined: Nov 2008
    Posts: 1,223
    Likes: 41, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 214
    Location: atlanta,ga

    bruceb Senior Member

    I would agree that any synthetic is questionable for waterstays, I don't think it would work for my 33. I have solid aluminum bars on it, and it is really stiff and I like it that way.
    I think I am going to try some dyneema waterstays on my Dragonfly 25 rebuild, the beams are already a bit flexible and I can oversize the stays enough that I should eliminate some of the flex. If I don't like it I can always go back to wire or solid metal. My Fly is sort of experimental so I don't mind some trial and error.
    B
     
  4. Headharbor
    Joined: Mar 2010
    Posts: 66
    Likes: 4, Points: 8, Legacy Rep: 26
    Location: Boothbay, Maine

    Headharbor Junior Member

    Bruce:

    What do you mean when you said "...I spliced some dyneema for a set of 45 degree beam stays. I think the 24 will appreciate them. I added them to my B-33 and they really make a difference on keeping the forestay tight." I am having a hard time visualizing this.

    Time for me to uncover the B24 for the summer.

    Best,
    Carl
     
  5. bruceb
    Joined: Nov 2008
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    Location: atlanta,ga

    bruceb Senior Member

    Carl, they go from the outer front beam (next to the float hull) and back to the inside of the rear beam next to the main hull, run under the tramps.
    When the mast side stays load up, the windward float and beams move forward enough to let the rig go slack. The stays between the beams help keep the boat a lot stiffer. The beam stays don't need to be really tight, when you set them up you just want to take the fore and aft movement out of the beams. I think I used 5 mm heat set dyneema on the 24, sized to limit stretch. We used a loop around the forward beam, at the aft beam there was an eye we laced to for adjustment, but the lacing could also go around the beam to keep it simple.
    I will get some photos the next time I am at the lake.
    B
     
  6. freddyj
    Joined: Oct 2013
    Posts: 267
    Likes: 16, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 37
    Location: kansas

    freddyj Senior Member

    Got new sails on my b24. Got great service and a great price from Precision Sails. The boat is completely transformed! I've already gone over 15 knots and it doesn't even come close to submerging an ama. With the old sails, at 12 knots it would almost submerge.
    That being said, anyone on this list gets close to Wichita Kansas is welcome aboard for a sail and buccaneer talk!
     
  7. bruceb
    Joined: Nov 2008
    Posts: 1,223
    Likes: 41, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 214
    Location: atlanta,ga

    bruceb Senior Member

    Congrats Fred! Good/new sails make a difference on any boat, but on light and fast boats, the lift to drag ratio really becomes apparent. Enjoy!!!
    B
     
  8. redreuben
    Joined: Jan 2009
    Posts: 1,728
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    Location: Beaconsfield Western Australia

    redreuben redreuben

    C’mon Freddy, you know the rules. If there’s no photos it didn’t happen.
     
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  9. Headharbor
    Joined: Mar 2010
    Posts: 66
    Likes: 4, Points: 8, Legacy Rep: 26
    Location: Boothbay, Maine

    Headharbor Junior Member

    Busted -

    I sheared the dagger board off yesterday in a steady 15 kts with erratic gusts up to 30 kts (did not know they were that high at the time). Single reef in the main, and sheets eased. On our way back in, we got hit by a gust and heard a loud "wham". I realized we were side slipping almost immediately so we dropped the sails, threw over the anchor. The anchor was useless as we were already drifting down wind quickly. Luckily, we we able to get a tow before things got really interesting. ....Back to the shop to build another board.

    I built the board that failed, it was 1.5" thick with a chord of 16". Two layers of 3/4" marine ply epoxied together with a layer of thin fiberglass for chaffing on the outside. The board projected ~5' below the hull and was mounted in a vertical dagger board case (there is a discussion about this earlier in this thread). The board failed at the hull.

    For the new board, I am thinking of going back to laminated solid wood, embed an 'angle iron' of GRP or carbon, and use a heavier laminate of fiberglass on the outside. Any thoughts, suggestions, laminate schedules welcomed.
     

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  10. patzefran
    Joined: Feb 2011
    Posts: 237
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    Location: france

    patzefran patzefran

    Plywood is inadequate for daggerboards as only half of the plies are working in the good direction ! See Gougon brothers writing on centerboard building.
     
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  11. Headharbor
    Joined: Mar 2010
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    Likes: 4, Points: 8, Legacy Rep: 26
    Location: Boothbay, Maine

    Headharbor Junior Member

    Are you referring to specific chapter, a quick search for daggerboard or centerboard did not come with a description layup. Great book BTW.
    https://www.westsystem.com/wp-content/uploads/GougeonBook-061205-1.pdf
     
  12. buzzman
    Joined: May 2011
    Posts: 509
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    Location: Australia

    buzzman Senior Member

    Ply will not be as strong as solid timber as per what patz said. Another thing to watch when rebuilding in solid timber is that the grain runs the right way....
    IOW, if you have a piece of milled 2 x 1, and you are lining up a bunch of them to glue to gether to make the chord, the 1" sides face the gunnels. This allows for the stiffest side-to-side resistance (what failed last time). You might want to mill them to 1.5 x 1 to begin with, if that is your constraint.
    While it might be temptingto use 4 x 2 (or 4 x 1.5) laid the other way, the side-to-side stiffness will be compromised, despite the thicker sectional size, as the timber itself is weakest across the lay of the grain.
    So you'd need 16 off, 1.5 x 1, each piece the length of your board. Lotsa glueing! And it would help if you could lightly clamp it while it goes off.
    There's no need to do more than waterproof and protect against groundings and strikes if building with solid timber, as the strength comes from the timber. So coat with epoxy then add lightweight glass skin as 'waterproof'.
    If you want to build a 'strong' board make it from foam and carbon, but get someone who *knows* what they are doing to spec the layup.
    If building in solid timber, epoxy glue the timber strips together then cover the entire board with a single skin of 10oz and an extra layer or two of 10oz tape over the leading edge for protection.
    Happy to be corrected if anyone has a better way...
     
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  13. redreuben
    Joined: Jan 2009
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    Location: Beaconsfield Western Australia

    redreuben redreuben

    Agree with buzz, although in the past using cedar I still used some uni 100-150 wide at the widest point tapering out after it exits the hull. Router a rebate for it and then fair and sheath over.
    Another "trick" I've seen is to rip the leading and trailing edge strip in the fore-aft direction and re-glue with a strip of +45-45 in the gap to make it a bit more resistant to splitting, especially the trailing edge. You can do similar when gluing up the strips to create an I beam effect at max chord (under where Uni's are).
     
  14. patzefran
    Joined: Feb 2011
    Posts: 237
    Likes: 21, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: france

    patzefran patzefran


  15. Headharbor
    Joined: Mar 2010
    Posts: 66
    Likes: 4, Points: 8, Legacy Rep: 26
    Location: Boothbay, Maine

    Headharbor Junior Member

    Thanks All, good advice as usual. Onward.
     
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