Buccaneer 24 Builders Forum

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by oldsailor7, Jul 22, 2009.

  1. patzefran
    Joined: Feb 2011
    Posts: 132
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    Location: france

    patzefran patzefran

    use dyneema lashing !
     
  2. freddyj
    Joined: Oct 2013
    Posts: 226
    Likes: 3, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 37
    Location: kansas

    freddyj Senior Member

    I wouldn't know how to use dyneema. The rigging came off the parts boat I got in Sarasota. It's got a roller furling so i assume the drum needs to be a ways off the deck. The boat came with boxes of parts, so, since I know little about rigging, I'm having a time figuring out what goes where. I have a bunch of stuff which I don't know what they're for. I need to set them out and get photos and post them on here to get advice.
     
  3. bruceb
    Joined: Nov 2008
    Posts: 1,150
    Likes: 26, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 214
    Location: atlanta,ga

    bruceb Senior Member

    Fred, Most boats, with or with out a furler, have a turnbuckle and toggle at the bottom of the forestay wire. Often, the furler drum covers some or all of the turnbuckle, or it is built in the drum its self (harken and others). Sometimes, a set of extension plates are added to elevate the drum away from any pulpit or other foredeck clutter. All of the other stays also usually have some type of toggle at the chainplates, although some designs of turnbuckles are "self toggling". The forestay often attaches at the masthead with some kind of extension shackle also, and it has to be included in the overall length. Of note, the "stock" B-24s forestay does not go at the very bow, but is offset to the rear about a foot or so. The plans show it that way. It is not unusual to find a boat set up with the forestay all the way at the bow to allow a longer J measurement. I used the inner position and sometimes mounted a roller drifter to the bow. It is pretty easy to balance the boat by changing the mast rake, you will have to experiment to get the best setup for you.
    The height of the cabin also affects the forestay length, is your boat's cabin the same as the old boat's was?
    The furler drum should be as low as you can get it with out it dragging on something.
    Of course, pictures and the brand/model of the furler will help.
    B
     
  4. mogsnz
    Joined: Nov 2015
    Posts: 6
    Likes: 0, Points: 1, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: New Zealand

    mogsnz Junior Member

    Greetings, I'm considering taking Miranda out of the water for an extended period to address some of the issues that have been present since before I took possession.

    The boat takes a bit of water after heavy rain or sailing into choppy seas.
    This is mostly coming in around the (fixed alloy) beams and water stays; where the beams run along the berth and cockpit floor, water is pooling on the bottom of the round beam and making the ply underneath go soft. Anywhere the beams transition through wood there is visible soft or rotten wood. There is also electrolysis/pitting on the beams particularly around the inboard stainless fasteners.
    Applying liberal quantities of marine sealant does keep the water out for a while, but it eventually finds it's way back in.

    After reading through this and other threads, I feel the solution most likely lies in a wooden beam conversion. I especially like the idea of demountable as I have space to store the boat in winter but only if it could be dismantled. The Outside The Box/Ezifold demountable solution looks like a good starting point, unfortunately their website/domain seems to have gone away and as I don't have 5 posts yet I am unable to send them a PM. Does anyone know if they are still around?

    The other issue I have is that both the moorings I use are tidal and the cassette rudder is a real pain when coming home to a falling tide, I would much prefer a daggerboard which I can reduce draught as I run out of water. Of course this would require modification to the "tail" which would change the look of the boat which I know many people have expressed opinions on.

    Finally a shoutout to Miranda's Waitemata sister Capricorn. Fun fact; the paint used on Miranda's top sides is called "Capricorn Yellow", makes it easy to remember.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2017
  5. bruceb
    Joined: Nov 2008
    Posts: 1,150
    Likes: 26, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 214
    Location: atlanta,ga

    bruceb Senior Member

    Welcome to the forum ! The bucs, and I expect all boats with alloy in contact with wood, seem to have serious pitting where the alloy comes in contact with salt water infused wood. It seems that there is always enough movement and lack of oxygen that the protective film on the aluminum gets worn away, the pitting then occurs. My 24 had some in the float saddles, my 33 was so bad I could put most of my hand through the float saddle/beam contact points and the beams had small holes where the beams passed into the main cabin. (The source of some really hard to find leaks I expect) The bolt holes always leak into the floats and also eventualy lead to rot in the float saddles. I replaced the beams and I have tried to address the problem with tape/sealant/paint to isolate the wood/alloy contact. Time will tell :) Interesting to me, the stainless to alloy contact had very little issues on either boat.
    Capricorn has one piece wood/epoxy/glass cross beams and I think the basic design and layup is posted somewhere in the B-24 thread. I expect it would work fine on your boat.
    In my experience, you can put any sort of rudder that works for your use. I mounted a simple kick-up rudder on my 24 that had a rig very similar to Capricorn's, and it works very well. Of course, you have to get the balance/lead right, but when sorted out, the transom hung rudders work very well on the Bucs. I think the hull comes to such a point that the under hung rudder's don't benefit much from an end plate effect anyway. IMO! An even better solution might be float hung rudders if every thing else is strong enough. I am considering them for my 33 as I think they could be smaller with less drag and would get the grounding prone rudder off the main hull. If not, I will certainly go to a transom hung dagger blade. The Farrier/Corsair design seems to work well.
    B
     
  6. Gary Baigent
    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 2,878
    Likes: 60, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 509
    Location: auckland nz

    Gary Baigent Senior Member

    You could make a secondary shallow depth rudder that could be attached/hung to one side of your transom. It would be sacrilege to butcher that carefully designed and constructed long transom and anyway, it is too fine to hang a rudder off the end. Miranda's main rudder actually is not excessively deep but if you are worried about grounding, then the secondary one could be an answer. Alternatively you could seal off the underhung rudder and put rudders on the floats, like we did to Shifty. But you'll have to reinforce with carbon that float after area, maybe have to shorten them back to original float transoms. Check out Capricorn's beams over at Little Shoal Bay. Eric Eason is new owner and he is making a number of changes.
     

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  7. ALL AT SEA
    Joined: Nov 2013
    Posts: 13
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    Location: Australia

    ALL AT SEA Junior Member

  8. outside the box
    Joined: Dec 2008
    Posts: 378
    Likes: 10, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 90
    Location: New Zealand

    outside the box Senior Member

    Good evening Mogsnz
    We have just read your post regarding Ezifold being off line.
    There has recently been a Company change of ownership from the founders son.

    A heavy development program and patenting on some elements of design work, prompted the new owners to focus on this new phase. All will be back online in the new year with a fresh new website and range of products.

    If we can help you in any way with your future refit please don't hesitate to contact us through private message here regarding anything Buccaneer 24' plans.

    Kind regards

    Jessica and Team Ezifold
     
  9. mogsnz
    Joined: Nov 2015
    Posts: 6
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    Location: New Zealand

    mogsnz Junior Member

    Thanks for the replies everyone.

    Hi Gary, I have considered all of these options. Regarding the depth, I have grounded the long rudder and had to swap to the short one on many occasions coming into both Cox's and Colville bays, this can be pretty tricky in any chop.
    Hanging a pair of rudders from the original float transoms was my initial thought also, but as you noted I also have concerns about making sure it was strong enough. This would probably be the preferred solution if it could be made to work.
    For a single transom hung rudder, I was imagining the back of the current cassette case being the new transom. This would retain most of the tail structure, and hopefully most of the benefit. I also quite like the idea of making the tail into a bit of a sugar scoop.
    The pointy end of the tail has taken a bit of a beating, especially when Armstrong parks his 45ft catamaran inside your mooring scope (hence why my mooring has moved further out). Last time I hauled her out, the foam tail did not stop weeping water after more than a week.

    I have collected as many photos as I can of Capricorn, but I would like to take a closer look. I did say hello to the guys on Capricorn anchored in Colville bay a few years back when I was passing by on Zefferen with Sandy and Malcolm et al, was Eric the owner then?

    My current immediate concern is how to get the boat out of the water and broken down onto a trailer for transport to Albany where I have workshop space to begin this project.

    Thanks, Morgan.
     
  10. mogsnz
    Joined: Nov 2015
    Posts: 6
    Likes: 0, Points: 1, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: New Zealand

    mogsnz Junior Member

    Jessica. Thank you for replying, that is good news that you are still around. I will make contact regarding the beam plans you had listed on the old website.

    Deliberately sent as a separate post to bump me up to 5.

    Morgan.
     
  11. Gary Baigent
    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 2,878
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    Location: auckland nz

    Gary Baigent Senior Member

    Morgan, if you go to float transom rudders like those on Shifty, you can decrease/increase depth depending on where you're sailing. And because the leeward blade is deeper in water, can be of lesser area and depth than conventional set up. And in light airs you can increase draft too.
    The short rudder aft on main hull system, we've found to be unsatisfactory in fresh winds sailing in shallow water; wind power takes over the small rudder and you end up in irons, cursing and muttering.
     
  12. mogsnz
    Joined: Nov 2015
    Posts: 6
    Likes: 0, Points: 1, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: New Zealand

    mogsnz Junior Member

    Yes I have experienced this; even in light wind it can be difficult to bear away under main only with just the short rudder. Hoisting the Yamaha is usually the best solution in these situations.
     
  13. freddyj
    Joined: Oct 2013
    Posts: 226
    Likes: 3, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 37
    Location: kansas

    freddyj Senior Member

    My rudder only pivots up 90 degrees, so it sticks straight back when out of the water. I've seen some that pivot up vertically. Do you think I should re-engineer mine to go vertical?
    Also, here's a photo of them first assembly of amas to main hull. Starting to look like a boat! IMG_20171113_172205369-1.jpg
     
  14. outside the box
    Joined: Dec 2008
    Posts: 378
    Likes: 10, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 90
    Location: New Zealand

    outside the box Senior Member

    Looking like all the hard work and detail has paid off freddyj we can't wait to see you out sailing.
    Regards
    Jessica and Team Ezifold
    QUOTE="freddyj, post: 817991, member: 53433"]My rudder only pivots up 90 degrees, so it sticks straight back when out of the water. I've seen some that pivot up vertically. Do you think I should re-engineer mine to go vertical?
    Also, here's a photo of them first assembly of amas to main hull. Starting to look like a boat! View attachment 136840 [/QUOTE]
     

  15. bruceb
    Joined: Nov 2008
    Posts: 1,150
    Likes: 26, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 214
    Location: atlanta,ga

    bruceb Senior Member

    Hi Fred, No it does not look like a "boat", It looks like a BUC! Congrats :)
    On a slightly different note, I hope that furler isn't completely attached, it looks a little strange. Post a close up if you need some assistance.
    B
     
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