Buccaneer 24 Builders Forum

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by oldsailor7, Jul 22, 2009.

  1. freddyj
    Joined: Oct 2013
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    Location: kansas

    freddyj Senior Member

    It's not that I am wanting one on my buc, it's just that I was wondering why some boats have them and others don't. What makes one boat need a backstay, and another one doesn't?
     
  2. buzzman
    Joined: May 2011
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    Location: Australia

    buzzman Senior Member

  3. freddyj
    Joined: Oct 2013
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    Location: kansas

    freddyj Senior Member

    I'm 500 hours into my build now, and still a long way to go.
     
  4. santacruz58
    Joined: Oct 2014
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    Location: lower hutt,NZ

    santacruz58 Senior Member

    hours

    500 hours sounds alright to me. You have come a long way in your build. The finishing and fit out takes a lot of time but some of that can be farmed out. I am planning on building a 7.2 Wavelength and I am figuring on 2000 hours to completion. How long it takes me will depend a lot on the level of finish. You should be able to complete your buc 24 in much less time. When you think about it if you were working on her full time that would be just over 3 months. Three months of fun. At least for me any. Keep up the good work.
    nelson
     
  5. EFrank
    Joined: Jun 2016
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    Location: NC, USA

    EFrank New Member

    Bucc 24 Sails

    I had a Buccaneer 24 back in the 90's. Loved that boat. Had some great adventures and misadventures. Unfortunately, work pulled me away from the boat and it succumbed to the elements. I did not have time to rebuild it at that point, so I stripped it and trashed the hulls. I know...boo! -very regretful.

    Anyway, I was cleaning out the garage and found the main and a roller furling jenny for it.

    Main is ok, very usable - no holes or patches I could see when I partially unrolled it. It has a few stains. It has the Buccaneer logo.

    The jenny looks really good.

    If anyone has a Bucc and would like them, I will send them for the cost of shipping. Email me at efrank at suddenlink dot net.

    Cheers,

    Eric
     
  6. freddyj
    Joined: Oct 2013
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    Location: kansas

    freddyj Senior Member

    I came up a few sheets short on my build, so I bought exterior grade plywood from the lumberyard for the cabin top. Hope I'm not making a mistake. It is fir plywood. Looks nice, but it's not technically marine grade. If I order more of the good plywood, it's gonna cost me a fortune because of shipping only a few pieces. $500 for three pieces w/shipping and crating!!
     
  7. oldsailor7
    Joined: May 2008
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    Location: Sydney Australia

    oldsailor7 Senior Member

    Basically you only see backstays on Monos.
    Cats and Tris usually have twin backstays going out to the back sides or transoms.
    The single backstay can often interfere with the roach of the mainsail, or the top of a square topped sail.
     
  8. buzzman
    Joined: May 2011
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    Location: Australia

    buzzman Senior Member

    As long as it is made with A-Bond formaldehyde-based waterproof glues it shouldn't matter much.

    Technically, the principle differences between 'waterproof exterior ply' and 'marine ply' is the quality of the laminates themselves, not just the glue.

    Marine ply *shouldn't* have any voids in any of the plys, and is usually constructed with higher grade laminate veneers on the exterior, or at least on one face, so it tends to be AA or AB grade.

    Whereas exterior ply can have knots and voids and is most often BB or BC grade, although you can occasionally find it with AB faces.

    If there's is an 'agreed standard' for the plywod made or supplied in your country, check for compliance, especially for marine ply.

    Much of what is sold internationally as 'marine ply' is claimed to comply with the British Standard BS 1088 which is acknowledged by them that knows as being something of a 'moving target'.

    Some ply so labelled does in fact comply, other makers simply brand whatever their factory turns out with the BS 1088 label.

    It is, I understand, a 'non-compliant' labelling standard.

    Whereas here in Oz we have the Australian/New Zealand Standard AS/NZ 2272:2006.

    This is claimed to be one of if not the highest standard and makers have to subscribe in order to become certified.

    The best precis of what's required is on Boatcraft's website here:
    http://boatcraft.com.au/informationpages/marine_plywood_as2272.htm

    Hoop pine marine ply so certified is about twice the price of BS1088 "certified" ply from South-East Asia (where most plys come from).

    Boatcraft themselves acknowledge the difficulty of maintaining good supplies of properly made and 'certifiable' marine ply, and try hard to keep up a standard of quality from their suppliers.

    But for a cabin roof top...??? Exterior grade is probably fine, provided the glue is A-bond.

    You pays your money and takes your chances....

    Having said that, there are people who have built entire boats from 'exterior grade' ply and lived to tell the tale. Epoxy and glass laminating is advisable, especially in structural areas.

    Or, so I'm told.... ;)
     
  9. buzzman
    Joined: May 2011
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    buzzman Senior Member

    OS, on the subject of backstays and other mast supporting stays, why do some tris have two side stays and no backstays?

    I've see all kinds of systems on different boats and I'm not sure I understand the relevance, or rationale for each.

    For example, whats the point of having one set of stays slightly aft-leaning and attached to the cabin top, then another set out to the aft end of each ama? Some of these are also adjustable..??

    On cats it makes sense to have a short single back stay that splits at a bridle and goes to the transom of each hull, but as you say, can interfere with a fat-head main.

    So what's the option of you want a backstay AND a fat head main?

    Is this why some boats have running backstays (whatever they are....).

    Can someone take pity on us 'children' and explain the concepts and solutions..?

    Do systems differ from racing boats to cruising boats, for example? What would be optimal for a 'cruising boat' as opposed to one regularly raced?
     
  10. Gary Baigent
    Joined: Jul 2005
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    Location: auckland nz

    Gary Baigent Senior Member

    With three point rigging, headstay and two shrouds, there is, on multihulls anyway, a flexible platform so running stays going from the hounds to either main hull transom or after beam or float transoms, can tension up on the windward side (the leeward is let off) and stops the mast moving about, tightens the forestay for better headsail setup, reduces luff sag, and if you have a wingmast, reduces the movement of that larger mass.
    1st photograph:simple runner type setup on Buccaneer 24 (which had altered to 7/8th rotating rig, not fixed masthead as original). The main shrouds are pulled aft with blocks as shown, sort of in between runners.
    2nd: runners to transom on wing masted Sid, windward on, leeward off.
    3rd: 3/4 rigged Patterson 6.5m with runner type stays also going to after beam.
    4th: clever pivoting beams on Smyth's Everglades Challenge tri: main windward shrouds move aft, act as stays and also runners. Only for experts.
     

    Attached Files:

  11. buzzman
    Joined: May 2011
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    buzzman Senior Member

    OK, so that's examples of a few different types of running backstays - but what about fixed backstay on a cruising tri for example?

    Is this even do-able?

    What are the mertis and demerits?

    Why does the lee backstay need to be unloaded?

    What then happens in an accidental gybe?
     
  12. Gary Baigent
    Joined: Jul 2005
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    Gary Baigent Senior Member

    Buzz, you need polite educating, old mate.
    Even cruising multihulls of today have square topped and high roached, full battened mains, therefore a fixed masthead backstay, which you cannot have ... because it is going to foul the main top area when you tack or gybe, destroy wind flow over sail, hook battens, create a disaster area ... in short, you can't have that type of main with fixed backstay. Instead you'll require an old time straight mainsail leech, pointed peak if determined to have fixed backstay.
    The leeward running stay, if not released, will do the same disastrous thing. See the correct setup shot of Sid with tight windward, slack leeward runner.
    Don't accidentally gybe from crap helming by running way too square (by the lee) downwind ... but if you do, the formerly windward runner has to be released quick smart. And if you're too slow, broken battens plus the boat will want to round up and kill you.
     
  13. buzzman
    Joined: May 2011
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    buzzman Senior Member

    LOL .. you have such a way with words ...

    I'd kinda figured those were the answers to my questions, but, as it happens, I do have a main that is kinda pointy .... so it's feasible, right?

    Can always change it later if/when I can afford to replace the pointy main with a fathead, I imagine?

    I'm looking for ease of use, not maximum speed, and it looks like a permanent backstay is 'easier' than constantly having to swap running backstays and being liable to broken battens etc etc...

    Just askin'.... :)
     
  14. redreuben
    Joined: Jan 2009
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    Location: South Lake Western Australia

    redreuben redreuben

    Fixed backstays are usually found on masthead rigs which are headsail driven boats, Runners are usually found on 3/4 rigs at the hounds for forestay tension or at the masthead when using big masthead spinnakers, very much a mono thing.
     

  15. outside the box

    outside the box Previous Member

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