Buccaneer 24 Builders Forum

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by oldsailor7, Jul 22, 2009.

  1. lgenova
    Joined: Dec 2009
    Posts: 46
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    Location: Brazil - Recife

    lgenova Junior Member

    In the region of the seams, the fiber was superimposed about 3 inches, creating a region of approximately 6 inches double fiber layer.
     
  2. Sailor Dan
    Joined: Oct 2014
    Posts: 39
    Likes: 1, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 11
    Location: United States, Louisiana

    Sailor Dan Junior Member

    Thanks for the advice, 4mm it is going to be.
    Dan
     
  3. freddyj
    Joined: Oct 2013
    Posts: 278
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    Location: kansas

    freddyj Senior Member

    I have a chance to buy 2 cases of liquid nails real cheap. Would that be a good substitute, (just for the gluing operations, not coating)?
     
  4. oldsailor7
    Joined: May 2008
    Posts: 2,097
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    Location: Sydney Australia

    oldsailor7 Senior Member

    I think Liquid Nails is great.
    I use it for gluing wing n things onto flying model R C aircraft.
    However Epoxy is 100% water resistant.
    I don't know how good Liquid Nails is for long term submergence in water.
    Anyone got experience of that??
     
  5. redreuben
    Joined: Jan 2009
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    Location: South Lake Western Australia

    redreuben redreuben

    I don't think adhesive is a good place to cut corners.
     
  6. cavalier mk2
    Joined: Mar 2010
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    Location: Pacific NW North America

    cavalier mk2 Senior Member

    The only boat liquid nails story I heard about ended badly. A bunch of kids built a scow with cabin out of home store ply using liquid nails. The long term success is a complete mystery because after launching they lit up in the cabin for a celebratory smoke. Unfortunately liquid nails off gas and a water tight boat has much less ventilation than the average house. They blew up with the boat....Moral of the story-just use epoxy, if you have to scrimp drink cheap beer.
     
  7. redreuben
    Joined: Jan 2009
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    Location: South Lake Western Australia

    redreuben redreuben

    I think the Flyin' Hawaiian was a liquid nails boat ?
     
  8. Sailor Dan
    Joined: Oct 2014
    Posts: 39
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    Location: United States, Louisiana

    Sailor Dan Junior Member

    It does have some specific uses in boats. I use it most of the time instead of 3m 5200 in instances like bedding deck hardware. It is a lot less expensive. I also use it on powerboats in places involving blind gluing like putting down floor decking which is also tabbed to the hull. I would not use on anything structurally high stress. It doesn't penetrate like epoxy, it is pretty much a surface bonding agent. It is good stuff, like I said, for certain things.
    Dan
     
  9. bruceb
    Joined: Nov 2008
    Posts: 1,247
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    Location: atlanta,ga

    bruceb Senior Member

    Construction grade

    But maybe not marine grade. "Liquid Nails" or any other water resistant poly glue, is not usually recommended below the water line (some of the brands say it on the label), and I wouldn't use it anywhere on Buc. I have used it on some "disposable" fiberglass projects with good success, but the glue/solvent is not dependable where it can vary (a lot) in the penetration and curing with wood. You still need epoxy to coat with, so I don't see much of a savings, and a real potential for failure.
    Of course, it is your project...
    B
     
  10. bruceb
    Joined: Nov 2008
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    Location: atlanta,ga

    bruceb Senior Member

    Glass coating

    My 24, at 45 years old, has only rotted from the inside out (mostly rain water), and only has glass on the decks- IMO, where it is necessary. Glass on the hull is only used to keep ply from checking, and only needs to be 4oz-6oz. It doesn't add any useful strength. Taping the seams does help keep water from penetrating the edges of the ply and is easier to sand fair with out damaging the ply edges.
    4mm marenti is plenty strong enough for most parts of a 24, 1/4" /6mm would be too heavy. The panels below the main hull chines MIGHT be better in 1/4", particularly if you are using a light grade ply and/or plan on trailering/grounding loads.
    B
     
  11. Sailor Dan
    Joined: Oct 2014
    Posts: 39
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    Location: United States, Louisiana

    Sailor Dan Junior Member

    Freddy, were you thinking about liquid nails along the edges because of the epoxy being to runny? If so have you used any epoxy thickeners to make it less runny?
     
  12. Marmoset
    Joined: Aug 2014
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    Location: SF Bay Area

    Marmoset Senior Member

    From a hardwood guys standpoint I've seen liquid nails as well as its counterpart "frp" adhesive completely let loose in a kitchen or bath flood. But! The frp itself looks fine, just lets the wood loose with no problems. And I've seen it tried on concrete before and doesn't seem to hold the greatest unless a liquid mvb(moisture,vapor,barrier) is used first. That's why for me when in doubt I use poly. I have yet to see what it won't stick too and never let go! Not to say I'd use it for a boat though, I mean there's epoxy right there and ready so....

    Barry
     
  13. outside the box

    outside the box Previous Member

    Freddyj
    Professionally we would not recommend its use period in any marine application.
    However that said I know of two boats having used it for its base gluing one being a Farrier Trimaran Ian did tell me the build but I forgot the name. Ian also professionally advised not to use it but his advice was ignored, it held together but creaked and groned like crazy no knowledge if it lasted.
    A simple test to ask yourself is would you buy your boat off someone if they told you they used liquid nails on its build?

    Toby and the Ezifold team



     
  14. bruceb
    Joined: Nov 2008
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    Location: atlanta,ga

    bruceb Senior Member

    Testing!

    Some years ago, my son needed to do a school science project, so being the "helpful" dad I suggested a glue test. Of course, he did most of the work and I was quite interested in the results. He is not so easily "tricked" these days but I guess that is what experience is for :D
    So "we" cut up a group of equal pine boards, (also a set of oak) drilled them for centered bolts, and built a large lever with a weight to pull the glued blocks apart. After the suggested cure time, we broke them apart.
    Four glues; waterproof yellow glue, a medium grade of epoxy, a strong grade of liquid nails, and Gorilla glue.
    The yellow glue was strongest, followed closely by the epoxy with partial wood failure in most of the blocks. The liquid nails was about half as strong as the first two, with the gorilla glue last, both with mostly glue failure.
    All the wood was freshly cut and dry with less than a 20% moisture content.
    Overall, a pretty good test, an "A" on the project, and I only trust epoxy when I want wood to stay together on my boats :)
    B
     

  15. freddyj
    Joined: Oct 2013
    Posts: 278
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    Location: kansas

    freddyj Senior Member

    I'll pass on the glue.
     
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