Buccaneer 24 Builders Forum

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by oldsailor7, Jul 22, 2009.

  1. freddyj
    Joined: Oct 2013
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    Location: kansas

    freddyj Senior Member

    Tonight I got it up to 80 out there and with the parts on a bench I noticed the epoxy got stiff much quicker.
     
  2. bruceb
    Joined: Nov 2008
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    Location: atlanta,ga

    bruceb Senior Member

    Temps

    Fred, do you have a digital thermometer, they are only about $30? I check the shop, the material, and the epoxy before I start mixing. Getting reliable results requires keeping the shop and materials at even and similar temps, or at least knowing what to expect. I often have to work outside, with temps varying 30 degrees or more in a day. Not fun, but if you have a record with your system, quite possible. Epoxy, if well mixed, will eventually set, but might not reach full strength for many days if it is too cold. Knowing and be able to predict set up will greatly increase the quality and speed of your work, but it does require attention to details.
    On another note, I didn't pay attention to all the specs of your epoxy, but in my system, the "clear coating" resin/catalyst is not as strong as the "bonding"and "laminating" resin I use. Since most parts of the Buc are hidden from view or painted for UV resistance, I don't use the clear coating epoxy for most boat building applications.
    Of course, being fairly lazy, I use peel-ply where ever possible to avoid sanding, and I find maintaining paint much easier than exterior clear coat. There isn't a square inch of exterior unpainted wood on any of my boats ;).
    B
     
  3. hump101
    Joined: Oct 2004
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    Location: Brittany, France

    hump101 Senior Member

    If you have some epoxy that is correctly mixed but not yet set, you can heat it up to fully cure it even quite a long time after initial mix. Don't be afraid to take the component temperature up to 80C (180F) for a short period to flash cure the surface. It won't be pretty afterwards, but if you are sanding it for recoating this is not an issue.
     
  4. freddyj
    Joined: Oct 2013
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    Location: kansas

    freddyj Senior Member

    A plethora of info on this forum. Thank you guys so much. I think I have it figured out now. I just was lacking confidence. After reading all these replies I feel more confident. I'm sure more stupid questions will be forthcoming.
    Fred
     
  5. freddyj
    Joined: Oct 2013
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    Location: kansas

    freddyj Senior Member

    Second pontoon side. Hope the photo uploads.
     

    Attached Files:

  6. bruceb
    Joined: Nov 2008
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    Location: atlanta,ga

    bruceb Senior Member

    Good photo

    Keep them coming!
    You can never have too many clamps ;)
    B
     
  7. oldsailor7
    Joined: May 2008
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    Location: Sydney Australia

    oldsailor7 Senior Member

    An epoxy which has been incorrectly measured and mixed will never properly set, whatever you do to it.
    Simple Resin/Hardener ratios are the best. Less chance of making mistakes.:eek:
    The idea of WEST is WOOD EPOXY SATURATION.
    An epoxy which has to be TROWELED onto a surface is too thick. Saturation of the surface can only be done with a thin epoxy, or one which has been thinned with a 100% solids thinner.

    Your brand of epoxy will provide such a thinner, but NEVER thin epoxy with Acetone or any Evaporative thinner. It evaporates from the mixture on setting, leaving micropores which destroy the water vapour proof nature of the final epoxy coating.
    Never use paint thinner.
    Methylene Chloride is good but the fumes are very dangerous and you need to have lots of fresh air, or wear a suitable mask when using it.

    A thinned epoxy can be rolled on with a Thin Foam roller. Your usual thick foam roller for paint is no good, it will apply too thick a coating, and the epoxy will ruin the roller itself.
    Thin foam roller sleeves are readily available, but probably not from your local paint store. Buy them in bulk and they are cheap enough to use and throw away.
     
  8. 2far2drive
    Joined: Nov 2011
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    Location: Houston, TX

    2far2drive Senior Member

    Lots of great advice from everyone.

    OS is correct about the never curing warning and I learned the hard way. Maybe I'm a simpleton but I still to this day prefer the pump systems are they are easier for me. I used to count one for one on the pumps but its easy to make mistakes. Now I count pumps of resin, then equal pumps of hardener.

    what we learned pretty quickly is that if you loose count via distraction or mental fog in your count, TOSS IT! Wait till you spend hours sanding and removing unset epoxy. I pray you dont experience that. But when in doubt, toss it. Yes its expensive... But so is your time.

    we didn't bother cleaning brushes or anything like some guys so we bought those cheap 2" chip brushes from harborfrieght, like 30 pack for $15. Same with foam brushes. But I will tell you my personal secret, children's food bowls to mix in!!!!! I stole 3 from my newphew
    VERY tough plastic! So after full cure, compress the shape and it all pops free. I huilt my entire trimaran with 3 bowls, no joke. Only broke them on accident with a scraper and not being patient by hammering through the bottom.

    another secret especially when glassing is to wait got the epoxy to go "green", or sticky on you. Then you can roll your 2nd or 3rd coat without waiting for full cure. Major time saver.

    I've used a ton of clamps. Quick grips from harborfrieght are a joke, dont waste time. Irwin quick grips are the best, just nut up and buy them. Metal bar clamps from harborfrieght/northern tool are rock solid due to less complexity. 36" bar clamp for like $7, cannot be beat! For light pressure areas, you can cut 3" PVC into 2" wide sections, drill a hole wherever on the face and cut a line through. Makes a ton of cheap medium pressure clamps for small jobs.

    keep the pics coming.
     
  9. freddyj
    Joined: Oct 2013
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    Location: kansas

    freddyj Senior Member

    Yes, Harbor freight is my friend, also. I'm using the cheap chip brushes also. They also have cheap foam rollers. I'm using red solo cups to mix in. I had to throw away one batch so far for having a brain fart. I've used epoxies and polyesters enough to know how important the correct mix is. I've had to scrape some off in the past.I'm using a digital kitchen scale to measure.
    part of the problem is that it goes green when I'm in bed already, since I mostly work on the boat after work.By the next evening I'm not sure if it's too cured to recoat without sanding. But yet it's too gummy to sand. Wish I didn't have to work a real job, I really enjoy the weekends when I can spend the whole day in the shop.
    I'm hoping for a summer of 16 launch. We'll see.
     
  10. Marmoset
    Joined: Aug 2014
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    Location: SF Bay Area

    Marmoset Senior Member

    Yeah lotta times you find poeple look at epoxy like bondo, mix fast and slap it on. Couple good tools I use are cheapo egg timers from dollar store. Set for 2 min minimum for mix then after that set pot life and use second timer for tacky stage( if you use epoxy enough you get a feel for this) and it can be a no no but admittedly I do stick my epoxy cup in a cheapo broiler to speed things up. I never cook mixed epoxy, but I'll warm up cup, or after tack phase a part to completion, if it'll fit in oven that is. And 3rd the vote that you never never thin it out cause your not really thinning, your changing the chemical composition. Being a hardwood guy by profession, and composite slinger by hobby, I have one of those little weather stations at my house so I'm constantly looking at temp and as important humidity.

    Barry
     
  11. Marmoset
    Joined: Aug 2014
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    Location: SF Bay Area

    Marmoset Senior Member

    Oh! Just read the gummy part! If your epoxy is low temp capable it will fire off in a day but! If it hasn't fired off in 24 hours or less it won't ever properly set off. Even long set epoxy I've used thats not fully cured is soft but never gammy. Any time I've seen epoxy gooey is when it was old, mixed wrong, or retarted by low temps during cure. Os has prolly slung more epoxy than me so I'm sure he can chime in better. But my feel is when I know it's setting right but not set yet, is that for example it feels rubbery, but not gooey in any way, and then magically after cure time it's hard as can be. That jive with your feel on it Os?

    And sucks but worse case you can back scrape it all off pretty easy when it's nt truly set. And that is a scenario where, again not proper, but I have then gone over with a thin hot batch in perfect temps to seal it in and mildly bond to remaining.
     
  12. SkipperGS
    Joined: Jan 2014
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    Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brazil

    SkipperGS Junior Member

    Centreboard


    I've back-paddled a bit to find your most recent comments on centreboards/daggerboards. My 12-year-old B24 has a centreboard that was sticking. This made me think that either the casing hull edges or the CB had swollen through resin wear and water ingress or excess anti-fouling.
    However, I started to leave the control lines alone, only raising or lowering the CB manually from under the hull. It now moves freely. So logically it is the control lines that were jamming things and need to be replaced urgently, more so now since at speeds above 8 knots the CB starts to raise itself and sail balance is lost!

    So if anyone can scan a B24 centreboard case plan to send me I would be VERY grateful.

    I enclose a scan of one of my precious three plan scraps which only shows a daggerboard arrangement and a PDF with a photo and rough plan of the CB arrangement. The control line trunking side panels are nailed to the fore and aft vertical timbers preventing simple access from the cabin. The CB 'axle' bolt heads are capped by small SS boxes glued to the casing sides with Sikaflex which doesn't help inspection matters!

    A plan would help me to prepare everything better and decrease time on the beach or hard.
     

    Attached Files:

  13. outside the box

    outside the box Previous Member

    Hi there
    PM your address and we will forward the sheet in your photo.
    We have completed plan set for a new CB design but in your case it would be a rebuild.

    Regards
    Toby and the Ezifold Team

    t
     
  14. freddyj
    Joined: Oct 2013
    Posts: 280
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    Location: kansas

    freddyj Senior Member

    What about putting a hatch in the amas to facilitate inspecting the insides and also to use for lightweight storage. Would this just be asking for water ingress?
     

  15. outside the box

    outside the box Previous Member

    Freddyj
    As part of the upgrade plans we are working on we have made allowance for what you suggest we have molded inserts for the Buc 24 test mule floats overkill for the home build however. Have all the details coming through as we finalize work on the plans and what bits will be available pre built.

    Cheers
    Craig andthe Ezifold Team

     
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