Buccaneer 24 Builders Forum

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by oldsailor7, Jul 22, 2009.

  1. freddyj
    Joined: Oct 2013
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    Location: kansas

    freddyj Senior Member

    A photo of my frames getting coated. This is as far as I've gotten so far.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Sailor Dan
    Joined: Oct 2014
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    Location: United States, Louisiana

    Sailor Dan Junior Member

    Freddy, glad to see the pictures. I am planning to pick up some meranti this weekend and get started on the frames. Nice shop by the way.
    Dan
     
  3. freddyj
    Joined: Oct 2013
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    Location: kansas

    freddyj Senior Member

    How does one tell if there is enough of an epoxy coating on the parts? If I use a foam roller it looks to go on fairly thin. But if I use a brush it seems to leave a nice thick self-leveling coat on it. I've just finished the frames for the main hull and used about a gallon and a half of epoxy. Does this seem right? i'd hate to be using too much or especially too little.
     
  4. Sailor Dan
    Joined: Oct 2014
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    Location: United States, Louisiana

    Sailor Dan Junior Member

    Everybody has there own favorite method of applying epoxy so mine my differ from others. The first thing is the temp of the wood and epoxy MUST be in the correct range throughout the application and cure time. Too cold you will probably put it on too thick, have bad penetration, non-optimum adhesion, and a slow cure. Too hot it may cook off and harden quickly so you need to use smaller batches or adjust your hardener type(slow vs fast) but what exactly you are doing will dictate this. My first coat on bare wood, I prefer brush or body filler spreader. The first coat should be thin, and if the temp is right should soak into the wood to the point of still being able to feel the wood grain. You will also probably notice air bubbles forming on the surface as it cures as epoxy soaks in and displaces air in the wood fibers(this is one reason for multiple coats-air bubbles=pin holes). I like to let each coat cure completely before applying another. I sand lightly with med grit between coats after removing any blush. Foam rollers tend to trap air bubbles in the surface of any coat so I cant really tell if the wood is getting properly soaked or it is the foam roller is causing bubbles. On second and third coats very little to no air should be "cooking" out of the wood. I dont know what epoxy you are using, but as example, West System on porous surfaces(wood) per their specs should yield between 350 and 450 sq ft per gallon.
    Hope this helps
    Keep building
    Dan
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2015
  5. freddyj
    Joined: Oct 2013
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    Location: kansas

    freddyj Senior Member

    Good information there. i'm kinda working blind since I have never seen it done, or even seen a boat in person that was built that way. So I don't have much to go on and i don't want to do it wrong. My shop has a fairly consistent temperature. Down to 55 when I'm not out there and 70 when I am. So the material is all the same temperature. I can tell when the epoxy soaks in cause the wood changes color a little, but I haven't noticed any air bubbles. The epoxy I'm using is Axson, because I can get it locally, which is very convenient. It is a fairly thick consistency, seems to me. Thicker than polyester resin, by far. Polyester is my main experience. Prior to this I'd only used epoxy for small hull repairs on Jetskis and repairs on Corvettes. So this is a learning experience for me.
     
  6. Sailor Dan
    Joined: Oct 2014
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    Location: United States, Louisiana

    Sailor Dan Junior Member

    I forgot to add that better quality ply and tighter grain timber will not have as much air trapped inside so you may or may not notice many bubbles. Temperature is a huge factor in proper application though. Each successive coat should be thin also. To thick is a waste of epoxy
    Dan
     
  7. redreuben
    Joined: Jan 2009
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    Location: South Lake Western Australia

    redreuben redreuben

    Being pedantic but it is better to do the first coat on a falling temperature rather than a rising one.
     
  8. cavalier mk2
    Joined: Mar 2010
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    Location: Pacific NW North America

    cavalier mk2 Senior Member

    Yes, the cooling wood will draw the epoxy in. Warming wood will off gas air bubbles.
     
  9. bruceb
    Joined: Nov 2008
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    Location: atlanta,ga

    bruceb Senior Member

    application

    I use a disposable brush on small parts, rollers and sometimes just pouring it on with a large flat surface, and I use cheap plastic spreaders to even the coat out. It is quite surprising how much faster a spreader is than a brush, and it also doesn't add air. I use ones designed for bondo and such, with a handle. Everybody develops their own method.
    Nice shop, I wish I had that much space :cool:
    B
     
  10. hump101
    Joined: Oct 2004
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    Location: Brittany, France

    hump101 Senior Member

    To second the above responses, we used infrared heaters to warm up the panels to around 35C, remove the heaters, then pour on a measured amount of resin, spread with a plastics spreader, let it set. Result is an even, smooth, hard surface, no bubbles, and no amine. We ended up coated the full panels before cutting as it reduces the breakout of fibres along the grain during cutting, and is much quicker than coating individual parts.

    On the finished hull we used foam rollers and then cut up rollers to drag out the surface, as per the Gougeon brothers book, but again pre-heating the surface. You have to use brushes in the corners, etc., but I try to keep this to a minimum as brushing is slow and messy, and speed is king with epoxy on a warm surface!
     
  11. Sailor Dan
    Joined: Oct 2014
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    Location: United States, Louisiana

    Sailor Dan Junior Member

    Large carbon Tracing sheets

    I found a supplier for 4'x8' carbon tracing paper for transferring patterns to full sheets of plywood. They are in Michigan. The web address is sherwoodonline.com. They are about $10 dollars per sheet. Should make transferring patterns easy.
    Dan :cool:
     
  12. freddyj
    Joined: Oct 2013
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    Location: kansas

    freddyj Senior Member

    For about 30 bucks I had the frames plans copied one for each frame so I could cut them out. Then I taped to the wood on the centerline so I could flip them for the other side. Worked great.
     
  13. Sailor Dan
    Joined: Oct 2014
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    Location: United States, Louisiana

    Sailor Dan Junior Member

    That is a good option also which I may use. I posted about the carbon because this is the first time I have found sheets so large. Good not just for this project but countless others
    Dan
     
  14. outside the box

    outside the box Previous Member

    Freddyj and Dan
    Simple tried and tested method is a pattern makers wheel, same as pin prick method except you simply run the wheel over lines plan so only one copy of plan sheet needs to be made if your eyes aren't flash then the pin pricks can be drawn over with batten and pencil/pen otherwise just cut to pin marks.
    All we ever use works well fast efficient accurate.
    Good luck and keep pictures coming and ask plenty of questions.
    Cheers Craig and the Ezifold team
     

  15. Marmoset
    Joined: Aug 2014
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    Location: SF Bay Area

    Marmoset Senior Member

    For spreading I always use card stock. Buy a packet cheap at store and ya have months worth! Cut'em in half in paper cutter then fold them over and spray adhesive them together. Cheap semi flexible and disposable. Next best runner up for small stuff is playing cards. I buy the 3 packs at dollar store.


    Barry
     
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