Buccaneer 24 Builders Forum

Looks like I'll be very careful to get the frames as close as possible. I had the frames page copied once for every frame, so I have cutouts for each one that I can overlay onto my final product to check for accuracy.
I just needed to know if it was necessary, and I see it is. I didn't think ahead to what the hull sides could look like on uneven frames. I don't want to use any filler if possible, to save weight. The boat has to be light as possible to haul my lard-*** around. LOL

Fred

 

That's fords new campaign! Lol but yeah that sheeting isn't 3/4 inch, so ya can't belt away probs either. Imagine just laying a 4x8 of 1/4 ply on the ground and stick a pencil under each end, your gonna notice it. Now imagine buckets of filler to flatten that span!



Barry

 

Just for curiosity; If one were building a Buc out of foam, would the frames just be foam/epoxy with no edging? Then just bonded to the skin? It'd be a cleaner look for sure.

Fred

 

Foam

Fred, I replaced the ply bulkheads in my 33's floats with foam core panels, and I think the answer is- "it depends". (My 33 is built of foam core, but the bulkheads and deck were ply) Many of the float bulkheads were rotted or delaminated, so I pre-made and cut foam/glass replacements. In some places I was able to re-use the old tape/glass fillets, elsewhere, I made new fillets with a strip of foam against the hull, and then filleted and glass taped the new bulkheads in place. How ever you do it, you want to avoid the bulkhead from becoming a hard spot.
IMO, I don't see any problem mixing foam and ply panels, but you might want to do some destructive testing of your actual layups to see how they compare to ply that you would be replacing. I did with mine, and ended up adding some extra edge layer wraps to my panels to improve them. The weight gain was small, the foam/glass is still somewhat lighter than the ply it replaced, and they should be very trouble free. The foam is really easy to work with, but I found it took a little longer when you include the pre-panel making time, and of course, foam is quite expensive.
B

 

Was it hard getting the old ones out?

 

A better way next time?

It was not hard getting them out- for the most part, the wood crumbled in my hands. Grinding and prepping for the new ones, while inside the floats, then epoxying the new ones in place, was one of the most uncomfortable jobs I have ever done. Next time if there ever is a "next" time, I will cut the decks off for access. It did not help that I had a hip replacement a few months before
B

 

What did you skin the foam core bulkheads with and how does it compare to buckle resistance compared to the ply?

 

When putting ply bulkheads in a foam hull I like to put a strip of foam about 12mm thick between the bulkhead and the hull. A "block" wide of contour foam is usually enough, glue to hull, install bulkhead, radius foam with a 25mm sanding drum (like a Dremel) then tape with double bias.

 

R.R.
That really is a good "Belt and Braces" way of doing it,------however it is also an expensive, time consuming , and dirty job, working inside the hull.
Since the bulkhead presumably has a 3/4" wood frame on the 1/4, 3/8, or more thickness ply, there is a bearing area at least an inch wide bearing on the inside skin of the hull. Which, if the foam glass skin is properly specked, is quite enough to handle all the sea produced stresses.
(Hitting a rock is another matter)

 

Happy New Year!!

I hope my new year includes a finished 33
Bruce

 

Rebuilding

OS, you are certainly right, but at least in my case, I was afraid the 1/2" foam would be too small of a bearing area. I decided to error on the side of caution, and added the foam strips against the hull where I thought necessary. The inner glass layer on my 33 is quite thin, and I think the added area a good idea.
On a ply skinned boat, it might not matter as much, but it really doesn't take much extra time. Foam is really easy to cut and form, most of the work in my boats was removing the old bulkheads and prepping the area for the new material.
As designed, the 24's wood/ply bulkheads have about an inch of area to glue/fasten so they are ok as they are. I don't know how I would fasten ply panels to an all foam frame during initial assembly, nails or staples would not work, so a new assembly system/sequence would have to be used. All possible, just different. Once in place they could be filleted and glassed, but that would be much more time intensive than driving nails or staples. Hybrid material boat construction looks complicated, particularly on the main hull. The floats would be a lot simpler.
B

 

Foam bulkheads

Cav, My 33's original float bulkheads were 1/4" ply "rings" mostly around 4"-6" deep, with more depth top and bottom. I have a supply of medium density 1/2" "corecell" foam, so that is the basis of all my parts for this job, and I used 10 oz glass cloth for the first layer on the foam. I glassed both sides of the foam on my layout table, cut the half rings out, taped the edges with some 4" wide six oz tape and attached the rings to the hull with 12 oz 45/45 6" wide tape both sides, with an extra layer/layers in some areas. They are stronger than the ply, and about 30% lighter than 1/4" 5 ply maranti. They take more time than ply, use some expensive material, but they will NEVER rot.
I will try to post some photos of layup and testing next week.
B

 

Sounds good Bruce and good to post in case a newby doesn't know the foam is just the core. Wave impacts on amas can have a lot of force.

 

ply bulkheads

OS7, the boat was a Frers 40, the reason we went to such an extent was because the bulkheads were printing through to the exterior (yes, through a foam sandwich) the skins were quite heavy, these were being built as cruisers with full fitout not racers. Print through surprised me but the foam fillet worked.

 

You are right R R.
The proof of the pudding.