Buccaneer 24 Builders Forum

No, fairing and preparing to paint is usually the longest part. Depending on the build method of course.

 

Time

It is really important to get the frames "right" as everything else is dependent on them. However, you may be spending too much time making them "look" nice, and that is not necessary. I haven't built a whole boat, but I did replace most of the frames in mine, and I think I average cutting out and coating a frame an hour, at least. I do use some aggressive power tools and try to epoxy coat several parts at a time to save mixing and clean up time. Also, disposable brushes, containers plus peel-ply are your friends
B

 

Build sequence

Fred, some advice, for what ever it is worth
All dependent, of course on many things, including storage resources.
IMO, if you are still at the frame building point, I would start with the float frames and build one float at least before I started the main hull. The first float will take you twice as long as the second one, and the second one will be lighter and fairer . The main hull is a lot more complex and "critical", so the experience with the floats will help you a lot.
The Buc is a simple boat to build for its size, but it still requires skill in cutting, coating and assembly that only comes with experience.
B

 

I am building all the frames first. I don't feel like I'm working particularly slow, but gluing the parts together and coating them is taking time. What are the tolerances for the frames? If they are within 1/4 inch of the plans is that too much?

 

±1/4" would be rather sloppy work. If, for example, fame 3 is +1/4 and frame 4 is -1/4 you will have issues in the assembly and nightmares in fairing.

Draw the controlling measurements carefully. Cut as close to the line as possible while leaving the line on the work and finish with a sharp plane. It shouldn't be too difficult to have a tolerance of 0" to +1/16" or thereabout. Precision at this stage will be paid back over and over later.

If the cuts are straight lines you can easily make a guide for your circular saw that will guarantee accuracy.

 

tolerances

Fred, 1/4" is too much on the frames. I am a part time contractor, and my framing crews are expected to try for 1/4" and are usually closer than an 1/8", on a house. I build cabinets, and try for 1/16" and "expect" to be much closer.
Epoxy will fill 1/4", but the Buc's frames create the shape, and they need to be within 1/16" for the boat to end up fair. It is really not very hard- mark accurately, cut a little oversize, and use a block plane/angle grinder/sanding block to bring bring it down to the marked line.
Boats in general and certainly the Buc have very few straight lines, so I only use a circular saw for rough cutting panels, although it can be used with a guide to rip framing material. I do use a GOOD! jig saw, and with a sharp blade, it will do most of the heavy work. I cut framing material to size on my table saw, and often use the table saw to miter cut short framing to length. Mine is more accurate than my chop saw. You have to experiment and find what works best with your equipment and skills. Personally, when I am building small parts like frames, I start with a pile of dimensioned wood and alternate between a jig saw and a 4" angle grinder with an aggressive sanding disc. I find it is faster to work with as few tools as possible to reduce change over time. I also try to mark as much as possible using either the plans or parts of the boat instead of measuring, where errors can creep in quickly. A small powered nailer or stapler really speeds up frame assembly and allows you to hold with one hand and fasten with the other. I use my wife's left over 32oz yogurt containers to mix small amounts of epoxy. I punch a 1/4" hole in the top for my drill powered mixing paddle, then mix and add fillers as necessary with almost no mess.
Most of the time saving "tricks" are small and inexpensive, but the time/accuracy improvements are large.
B

 

He could always epoxy a shim on them if they are undersize to save starting over....

 

I cut it three times

And it was still too short
Thank goodness for epoxy
B

 

I did cut them barely oversized, and they are a little wavy, so I could sand them to final shape. I was just wondering if something like 1/4 inch would make the hull look wavy.
My plan is to glue on the edging and then cut the lower notches in and sand to final form. And then coat the frames completely with epoxy. Then when i cut out the hull sides I will glue the stringers in and then coat the insides completely with epoxy. I am hoping not to mess too much with epoxy on the inside after the hulls are built.
Hope it sails!

Fred

 

A good low angle block plane is a great way to even things up if it is sharp. Once you master that tool an electric plane can save time but is easier to take too much off if you get carried away. Uneven frames will make the hull look wavy or unfair.

 

Fred, Please don't laugh, but I do all my cutting out by what I call my "Zen" carpentry.
You mark out your cutting lines really accurately, then you start your jig saw at the beginning of the line. You don't try and push the blade around, but fix your eye with great concentration on the line immediately IN FRONT of the blade and allow your hand to follow it without conscious effort.
Sounds crazy, but thats how it works for me. Accurate to within .5 mm every time.

TIP. Don't use a coarse jig saw blade. It will fray up the wood fibres and make a rough cut surface, which then has to be planed or sanded. Save time and effort.

 

+1 what os said. I do hardwood for a living, every cut I do shows. Rules are, sharp blades, let the tool do the work, and just like driving a car look where your going not where your at with the blade. Trick I use is different size markers. Big band saw use a big sharpie, small scroll saw use pencil or fine sharpie. And I just cut on the other side of the line. Also if ya don't wanna spring for expensive sanders, just buy some spray adhesive and make your own! On tricky base boards I actually use a piece of baseboard with sandpaper glued to it as a shape sander. For big hog outs just put several parts of sandpaper on a long 2x4. On the buck I would make a plywood sander with stringer shape on it to sand grooves perfect.


Barry

 

Having been in the autobody business for my whole life, I am not too concerned with the final fairing and paint. I could probably do that in my sleep. In fact, I'll probably be using automotive urethane to paint it. Except I think I may need a special paint on the very bottom if i plan to keep it in the water all season.
I just wanted to get a feel for how important the accuracy of the frames needs to be. This forum has been invaluable in the information I have gotten. I probably never would have started this project if i hadn't read this forum. Actually when I started to look at boat plans, I had pretty much settled on a Discovery 20, but never pulled the trigger. When I read about the B24 I got much more excited about building my own boat.
So, thank you all for the plethora of information. I'll keep asking stupid questions, and maybe I'll figure out how to post photos of my progress.
(I'm almost afraid to be told I'm doing it all wrong!)

Happy New Year from Kansas!
Fred

 

Remember you want the build to avoid needing fairing compound or filler to save weight. The light construction is essential for performance hence the need for accurate construction. Getting too hung up on the shiny end of things can really bog (filler joke) you down.

 

I would imagine it's less a getting it pretty thing and more of an actual shape of the boat thing. Several feet between frames on a plywood hull could mean big bowing. How many gallons of filler would it take to fill a simple 1/8 inch dip across a 4 foot by 5 foot tall span? And now that's an item that doesn't soak up water the same as the wood it's attached to.


Barry