Buccaneer 24 Builders Forum

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by oldsailor7, Jul 22, 2009.

  1. Auntie Frannies
    Joined: Mar 2014
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    Auntie Frannies Junior Member

    Thanks for the reply Bruce. It seems many people have had the same questions and ideas about design changes. Few, if any, return with a completed boat to report on changes made and how the perform etc... I did downdload the B28 plans, I will have to give them a look over to see how/if a pivoting centerboard would make sense or not on the 24.
    I think when/if I get started, I will get back with some of you that had modified boats to discuss in more detail that changes.
     
  2. oldsailor7
    Joined: May 2008
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    oldsailor7 Senior Member

    For all that Bruce and I have just had to say.
    In the event I finally, after much experimentation, fitted my B24 with a simple, vertical daggerboard, which proved to be perfectly effective, dry and trouble free.
     
  3. Auntie Frannies
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    Auntie Frannies Junior Member

    It is highly likely that I would just go with that or the pivoting centerboard. The lifting foils like Miranda has, are probably just a pipe dream and will prove too complicated without detailed plans to follow anyways.
    I will hopefully be contacting you very soon, I need to finish a living room remodel job before I try to sneak boat plans past the wife...
     
  4. oldsailor7
    Joined: May 2008
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    oldsailor7 Senior Member

    " I need to finish a living room remodel job before I try to sneak boat plans past the wife..." :D
    No sweat AF.
     
  5. Gary Baigent
    Joined: Jul 2005
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    Gary Baigent Senior Member

    AF, you could solve your main hull accommodation problem by fitting a vertical and not complicated L foil in your floats. The lower L shape (or even a soft V) would give you lift and stability; the vertical part your hardworking anti-leeway dagger.
    In my very humble opinion, ha, centreboards are a pain in arse; wrong shape in cross section and plan form, gathers foul growth or sediment inside so it jambs, and the long slot, very draggy (even with OS7's rubber whatever seal). A dagger is so simple in comparison - and far more efficient. KISS principle.
    Sorry, think I'm repeating myself. No one listens. Boo hoo.
     
  6. oldsailor7
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    oldsailor7 Senior Member

    AH ! Gary.
    Don't cry. :( I listen to you, even though I sometimes disagree with you.

    I fitted a dagger to my B24. It had a NACA 0008 section and a rectangular planform. 4.5 sq ft wetted area. It worked just fine. :cool:
     
  7. Auntie Frannies
    Joined: Mar 2014
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    Location: Michigan

    Auntie Frannies Junior Member

    Thanks for the reply, Gary. I'm assuming a similar design to "Sid" is what you are envisioning? How would the L foils compare with the slanted strait foils in Miranda?
     
  8. Gary Baigent
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    Gary Baigent Senior Member

    All the differing foil designs work very well but some offer slight improvements in either stability, leeway, steadiness in flight and so on - but all are slightly compromised; you just have to decide which one suits you. The simple, 30-35 or so degree angled, asymmetric foils like on Miranda work just fine, a good compromise of steady lift and anti-leeway at the same time - but more angle would be less efficient to windward, although the lift would be greater. And steeper angle would be excellent to windward - but have less lift. The angled straights are the easiest and simplest to build and fit - and as said, they do the job fine.
    My suggestion of a vertcal L or J gives you the best of both worlds and although a J is a little more difficult to build, the soft turn L is straightforward. There is no black magic involved. I have built a twisting foil like an aircraft propeller blade; that is tricky - but still not difficult. The idea was to have higher angle of attack in the upper foil section area and zero attack at the tip ... so the faster you go and the boat lifts, less lift and less drag is provided. Conversely at slower speeds, more foil lift is provided. But this is too fussy imo.
     
  9. SpiritWolf15x
    Joined: Apr 2010
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    SpiritWolf15x Senior Member

    I wish I had the blueprints to my dad's B24, from the stories I've heard he pretty much had Twixt tuned and refined about as high as a B24 could get.
     
  10. bruceb
    Joined: Nov 2008
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    bruceb Senior Member

    Foiled again

    :D In my limited foil testing, the a-boards in the floats worked well to prevent leeway, and sized correctly also could provide quite a lot of lift. They didn't work well for quick and/or short tacking. If the foils are long enough to be efficient, the windward one has to be at least partially retracted or it drags. I would have had to carry an extra crew just to run the boards. They also are not very effective until the boat picks up some speed. The center dagger is much easier to handle when single handed, or in racing type tacking duals, or just tacking out of a crowded marina. Some tris might get their windward float higher than my Buc does, which would make a difference.
    I also tried using an a-board in the center trunk, and it worked very well- of course it had to be flipped for each tack. Since that board was just over half the size of my regular dagger, it expect it had much less drag. Judging from my tests, the size and shape of the float boards makes as much difference as their location. A symmetric float board, even with some extra angle of attack, is not nearly as good as a one sided foil.
    B
     
  11. Gary Baigent
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    Gary Baigent Senior Member

    That is an interesting solution, Bruce, flipping a single, central, asymmetric board ... but you've got to flip it for each tack ... just when you want to climb up to windward of the hated enemy, ha, just joking.
    Eric Tabarly with Paul Ricard, one of the earlier versions, had a similar philosophy, but two close together asymmetric vertical daggers each side of centreline in main hull, one up, one down depending on what board he was on - while also carrying the 45 degree angled, but straight, foils in the floats. This is a heavier setup to yours - but as said, you have to flip. Paul Ricard had enough dihedral in the beam to always fly the windward foil clear, no drag. Same with Sid. Also Miranda's mostly flies clear too. Unless in light airs, when it is lifted halfway. I've also got a central dagger but a very mean, high aspect ratio one, to counter leeway; seems to work okay in combination with the float J foils.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2014
  12. oldsailor7
    Joined: May 2008
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    oldsailor7 Senior Member

    So there you are AF.
    Yer pays yer money & yer takes Yer choice.
    I certainly think, despite what has been said, that the upturn in the tail of the B24, just as Lock designed it, is not a big deal. It makes a lot better use of the sheets of plywood. Sure it makes a rooster tail at the back when travelling fast. But what the heck, Samnz (now Samin), showed how his B24 (the Green Deathtrap) could win races.
    As Clive Cessna famously said, "Simplicate and add less Weight." :D

    To See what's gone before, go back to page 16 Post#229
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2014
  13. bruceb
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    bruceb Senior Member

    The full story :)

    The main reason I was flipping the board :eek: I only built one a board of each size, so I could try them and see which one I thought best. So ;) there I was with three boards in the cockpit (the long main one and two sizes of a-boards) and a trunk in the middle. So why not? Inquiring minds and all.
    For what it is worth, I do have good gaskets on all of the trunks. I made them with the stiffer material that APS sells, "glued" them on with epoxy, and monel stapled the corners.
    B
     
  14. buzzman
    Joined: May 2011
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    buzzman Senior Member

    It's probably been stated before, but can someone advise me of the weight of a Bucc 24 at 'dry hull' stage - ie: ply glued together but not yet epoxied and glassed, no rig, nothing but bare hulls.

    Floats??
    Main hull??

    What are we talking weight wise...??
     

  15. SpiritWolf15x
    Joined: Apr 2010
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    SpiritWolf15x Senior Member

    Twixt, my late father's B24 was readily taking on some of the fastest Banks 35 catamarans in western Canada back in the '80s. The main hull's waterline shape was one of the few things he only made minor alterations to, he never changed the fundamental design he only tweaked it slightly.
     
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