Brown's Sea Clipper 20 Jaganda

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by dstgean, Mar 10, 2010.

  1. ThomD
    Joined: Mar 2009
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    ThomD Senior Member

    Where is the drawing for this? I did hear the audio a while back.

    I think Jim is too much into the ruthless simplicity with this design for my particular taste. The reality is that homeless people in a depression don't start building trimarans just because they finally find a simple enough design. On the other hand there seems to me to be some room for something between the Kendrick 18 which is a big project, and the other end of the spectrum which is simple and cheap enough that I can handle myself.

    I actually think the Jarcats format is a better bet in this range, trailering is easier, the simplicty is there for what you get. About the only thing that might be altered is the hull efficiency and possibly simpler hulls in stitch and glue or tortured ply. Tris mostly make sense in this size range if you want to maximize the performance a little. But to get decent trailerability is going to double the time and cost budget.

    Another option is to reduce the G32 format to a H18 rig size. Been working on that but it gets pretty complex also.
     
  2. rayaldridge
    Joined: Jun 2006
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    rayaldridge Senior Member

    Thom, in my view, the Jarcats, since they're limited to highway legal width, have insufficient stability for the amount of sail in a typical beachcat rig. Unlike a beachcat, if one goes over, it likely can't be righted by its crew unassisted. I know that a lot of folks love them, and probably for good reason. But it's not just the occasional capsize that seems sub-optimal to me. It's that in heavy air, the limited stability means limited speed.

    Slider has the same overall beam as a Jarcat, but only 140 sq. ft.of sail. This was a decision taken to ensure anxiety-free cruising. But if I could have come up with a simple reliable folding system to add a couple feet of beam to Slider, I could have used a beach cat rig, and had a much faster and even more comfortable boat.
     
  3. Chris Ostlind

    Chris Ostlind Previous Member

    While there isn't a sailing boat afloat that can't be tossed, I'm kinda of the impression that reefing, prudently and significantly, will resolve a lot of that concern. The bonus comes in light air, where you can let it all fly and keep things moving.

    As a proper backup, the suggested equipment for the 21 ' Gato Especial includes a well maintained outboard of sufficient horsepower to move the boat in tough conditions when you'd like to drop all the sails.
     
  4. ThomD
    Joined: Mar 2009
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    ThomD Senior Member

    Ray, I get chills about it myself. Particularly the J5 wooden rig, which is pretty tall. On the other hand people seem happy with them. As you know, adding the cabin increases the weight and whatever else that may do it means more sail can be carried.

    Oram did a narrow width water ballasted cat influenced by the G32, and the influence for the current Slim line up. I always wanted a "G24", and there are a few people working on them in various spots at the moment. Still scares me compared to the beam of my tri with the same rig. Don't know whether Oram's boat was self-righting like the G32 or just used the ballast to good effect, I would guess the latter.

    I think that the self-righting is a pretty major advantage when it comes to allowing one to explore the full capabilities of the rig. A 24 foot self-righting cat, with water ballast using a H18 rig seems doable. Gets to be pretty complex. Partly it is all the systems, it is also a tricky design. A variable water ballasted cat is a novel format. The hulls need to be designed to work well at a wide range of disp., from about 33-100%. That also starts to push materials. That would be my take on the G32, needs to be a super light build to get 33% of the weight out compared to a 1-2 beam length ratio boat. Though it gets dialed back to some extent on a G24 since the beam is no longer 1-4, but 1-3.

    Rhodes seems to have had self-righting in the 8'x16' format with conventional body righting as with beach cats. Don't know how well that may have worked.
     
  5. Steve W
    Joined: Jul 2004
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    Steve W Senior Member

    Thom,The G32 is not self righting,it requires some effort on the part of the crew although less than most beachcats i think. I dont recall a G24,where would i find info?
    Steve
     
  6. themanshed
    Joined: Sep 2009
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    themanshed Senior Member

    The tri I'm building is not folding but the tubes are in a sleeve and the tubes come out as one piece. They are going to be composite so they will not be heavy. I'm thinking of sliding / folding seats this would sleep one but with a 17' beam each tramp is 6' plus long and 8' wide - tent on each side. The boat will float level not as tipsy as some 20' tris at rest.

    I have a 5.7 meter G-cat with a front tramp which is great for camping if I do not run my spin rig but it still takes me about 1/2 or better to rig.
     

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  7. dstgean
    Joined: Aug 2006
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    dstgean Senior Member

  8. KSONeill
    Joined: Jan 2009
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    KSONeill Junior Member

    Why did they lose the traveler and fit a vang, I wonder? It looks like they have the room for the traveler on the rear beam.

    K O'N
     
  9. bill broome
    Joined: Jul 2008
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    bill broome Senior Member

    folding cats

    it is possible to fold a 20' cat into an 8' x 20' package by revolving the hulls so that the deck becomes an outer face and the boat floats on what were the outer sides.

    see the woods 'wizard' and there is a stripped version with just a platform and hulls. not sure why you would prefer such a boat, since at 6m the tris are very persuasive, but it has been done.
     

  10. oldsailor7
    Joined: May 2008
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    oldsailor7 Senior Member

    How can you get more simple than a Piver "Frolic".
    Fast. Trailable. Solid wing decks. Planing floats. Self tacking jib.
    Kick up rudder. Front splash guard.
    By dispensing with the CB in favour of fixed daggers on the floats, (which also keep the boat level on the beach), there is room for a single bunk in the hull. IE:-sleeping bag with canvas boom cover. There is even room for an esky. :D
     
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