Bringing Teak cabbin floor back to life???

Discussion in 'Boatbuilding' started by CheoyLee39, May 20, 2014.

  1. CheoyLee39
    Joined: May 2014
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    CheoyLee39 Junior Member

    Good Morning

    My recently purchased 'Cheoy Lee Offshore' has an extensively timbered interior in need of rejuvenation. In regards to the Teak flooring, how do I best bring back the shine? Do I sand down, stain and varnish?? simply wash and varnish?
    And what products work best on Teak please :?:
    It's a fairly open question people may have different experiences depending on the extent of restoration required.

    Any replies and advice are appreciated.

    Cheers
     
  2. alan white
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    alan white Senior Member

    It's impossible to say what to do without knowing how badly the sole needs refinishing. Just guessing, you would probably want to entirely remove the existing finish.
    I'd RO sand first with #100 grit and then finish with hand block sanding with 150 grit.
    You can either oil or varnish the teak and I'd suggest oil (Deks Olje, e.g.) for a finish, as directed.
    It could be that you only need to chemically remove the remaining old finish , lightly sand (#150 grit on a RO) and refinish. Some teak soles are only thin veneer so never over-sand, never using sand paper to remove what could be removed with a chemical stripper. Look at the edge of removable insets to determine if you have solid wood or veneer, and how thick a veneer if so.
     
  3. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    I've had a couple of the Choy Lee "offshore" series. Teak is pretty easy to "save", if it's not too far gone.

    It's not so much a list of products, but a set of procedures and processes you need. It would be nice if there was a magic goo in a can that you could pour on and bingo a freshly restored sole, but alas, there's no such beast (damnit).

    Post some photos. Use a low light angle, so we can see the shadows in the low spots. What happens with most teak is the softer portions of the grain get scrubbed out with repeated cleaning, creating a washboard effect. The only fix for this is sanding it level again, which requires enough "meat" to remain in the stock. Also determine if it's solid teak or veneers or faced plywood (as Alan mentioned). Huge difference in the restoration approach on these products (just not enough material to sand).
     
  4. Chuck Losness
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    Chuck Losness Senior Member

    This is also on my to do list. My floor is 3/4" plywood with a veneer of teak and holly. Most of the floor is in very good condition. But the floor in the galley and by the chart table needs lots of help. I am planning on using a stripper to remove the old finish and then a very light sanding by hand with 220. But I am undecided on what type of finish to use.
    One friend of my put down 2 coats of epoxy and 4 or 5 coats of varnish. The first coat of varnish was put on while the epoxy was still tacky. I like the idea of a first coat of epoxy because it will seal the floor.
    Another friend first applies a couple of coats of varnish and finishes off with several coats of varithane(SP???).
    I have also thought of finishing it like it was a gym floor. Don't know what that entails.
    I am open to all ideas and suggestions
    Thanks
     
  5. CheoyLee39
    Joined: May 2014
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    CheoyLee39 Junior Member

    Good morning

    Thank you for some great replies and advice. I am to take possession of the yacht next week, so don't have pics at hand. The sole/floor is however worn/faded so to speak, not damaged, it has reasonable color, but the finish no longer has any shine. I will however post photos what I am aboard.

    I have had several replies elsewhere, and the general consensus was to sand down, seal, and then apply several coats of polyurethane such as (Spar Marine Varnish), or (epifanes 2 comp). Finishing the sole/floor in satin, and the surrounding fixtures in gloss.
    Very much as described by 'Chuck Losness'.

    I have also heard the basket ball court finish using products such as (Parish) a basket ball court varnish. Although for my mind it would end up over glossed. I am possibly in the thought as a few others that satin finish is best.

    Love the great replies, really very helpful.

    Cheers
     
  6. SukiSolo
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    SukiSolo Senior Member

    One little 'trick' of obtaining a satin finish is to use gloss then abrade it with very fine say 000 or 0000 grade wire wool. Best to degrease the wool first (it contains an element of soap) so if you have to overcoat it will not be contaminated. Cellulose Thinners is OK not white spirit (Turpentine) for degreasing. Sometimes the 'Scotchbrite' and 3M scourer/cleaners are good too but for a really nice fine finish I find the wool better.

    It is also a good method of abrading rough artex like surfaces and getting to sunken pores in timber to abrade them. I use it on fibreglass rough floors if deck paint is required but best if Acetone is relatively liberally used too for that scenario.

    Not impossible to reveneer ply, just be very careful not to be too liberal with the glue as it can seep through pores onto the surface face. Holly is tight enough grain but teak is definitely a lot more porous.

    Very important especially on veneered ply to sand WITH the grain, never across. Only a very light diagonal can be used or you will get nasty scratches that show in the end finish. Depends on the state of the floor what grade paper you start with, anything from even 120 through to 240 might be suitable.
     
  7. CheoyLee39
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    CheoyLee39 Junior Member

    Thanks 'SukiSolo', that is very useful to know, and I will certainly seek to employ those techniques, as essentially the entire cabin needs elbow grease, also some sections of veneer need replacing (although the sole seems intact, just neglected) the previous owner did not attend to any upkeep of the cabin veneer :mad:

    I would however of thought that polyurethane varnish also is supplied in satin :confused: although I have not looked into it yet.

    Cheers :)
     
  8. SukiSolo
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    SukiSolo Senior Member

    Yes, Polyurethane varnish is supplied in satin. It just saves having to buy 2 types of varnish. Also the finish is subtley different, much smoother with the wool as you are lighly abrading it. All the dust specks and unwanted 'grit' is left if you leave an as brushed finish. If you spray however the finish will be good, but you WILL need a decent mask as it is internal and masking the rest may be a pain.

    With Epifanes and Hempel make sure the first 2 coats have a lot of thinners in them with bare wood. Maybe 50% on the first one to get really good penetration. Both are good varnishes in my experience but need at least 5 or 6 coats. Maybe more on a floor getting heavy use. Overcoating is up to three days so minimal rubbing and good bond.

    Although I have 2K Matting agent, I will admit I have not tried it in varnish. I will say that with the old cellulose systems very little agent was required, but with acrylic/polyurethanes a great deal more is required to take off the gloss and give a satin or semi matt.
     
  9. CheoyLee39
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    CheoyLee39 Junior Member

    Thanks 'SukiSolo'

    I was thinking about using Spar Marine Varnish by 'Feast Watson', I would preferably avoid 2 comp varnishes, simply due to wanting to keep things very simple, also a reason for going for satin ready varnish is avoiding the extra labor involved in converting a gloss to satin. I considered the extra cost in buying both gloss and satin. Being new to this particular type of restorative work, I would much prefer to keep it slightly idiot proof :D So I will just need to swallow the extra cost of buying both satin and gloss.

    I will most likely brush on, although realizing spraying would create a better finish. However, as you have already stated, spraying would require extensive masking, and create more fumes, also I am doing this job on the water, not on the hard, so a compressor is slightly in convenient :p

    I have wondered about preparation, (sanding) would an orbital sander using fine grade paper be appropriate?

    Cheers
     
  10. SukiSolo
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    SukiSolo Senior Member

    Alan's suggestion is correct, but best if you have a thick face veneer say 1.5 to 3mm, then you can use a random orbit sander. If it is 0.5 to 1.0 mm I would be doing it by hand. Note he suggests hand finishing - and this will be with the grain. Like PAR says watch for the 'ripple' effect of softer grain pockets in the teak, in a perfect world and a thick face or solid you could get these out. If it is a thin face veneer be wary of gouging it deeper. Fairly easy to get unfairness with an RO sander compared to paper on a block, so check often.

    Actually if you have something like 7 sq meters of floor, wool finishing would not take long at all. Much quicker than sanding.

    Satin is a good idea for floors as it hides less than perfect flatness and is not as reflective. Hides a fair bit of floor scratching from shoes and boots with use too.

    Having checked that Feast varnish, I would personally use something else. Experience leads me to prefer either 2K or one pack polyurethane acrylics which use cellulose thinners as the solvent not white spirit. These types of varnish are definitely more durable and over a longer time. Also the one packs are tolerant of a lot of other types of finish being on the substrate, not so the 2K ones. It would appear that the Feast is a slightly 'older' type of polyurethane, similar to the International one. It would be OK, but might be better to use a different one.
     
  11. CheoyLee39
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    CheoyLee39 Junior Member

    I have just recently (3 days ago) taken possession of this yacht, I have started on the sole/floor, but finding that finer grade sandpaper 120 grit is simply not removing the old varnish effectively.
    I have gone to a courser 80 grit, this I find fare more effective, and fairly expedient, the area to do is fairly large, so messing around with fine grade is just too slow. I will most likely finish with 120 grit or the like.
    The teak is in fact solid plank, or at least I am not able to see any portion from the side that indicates it being a veneer. I may have a closer look in order not to end up sanding too vigorously. :p
     
  12. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    You'll rub right through a veneer in no time with 80 grit. Sometimes it's better to take more time and have more control with a finer grit, then run the risk of blowing through a veneer. What kind of sander are you using, which can have a big affect on the process too?
     
  13. CheoyLee39
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    CheoyLee39 Junior Member

    Hi

    I have been using a random orbital sander, I have now gone with 100 grit, and 120 grit, the result is a fairly smooth finish, almost ready to varnish. I will complete the finish with 120 or slightly higher.

    I actually had poorly fitting hatch covers for the batteries, (not closing properly). So I have sanded gown the edge of the planks. I have noticed that the thinner light strips are laid into the planks, they are approx 3-4 ml, but the planks themselves are solid, not a veneer bonded onto the planks. I may take a few pics and post them.

    Cheers
     
  14. alan white
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    alan white Senior Member

    If you mean by "3-4 ml" to be millimeter, that's nice and thick and you can be comfortable sanding with an RO sander with 80 grit to start.
    I despise thin veneers especially on floors due to refinishing constraints. It's fortunate the sole is solid wood. Teak and holly no doubt if the strips are light in color.
    I'd follow a schedule similar to this: No stripper, just sand with random orbit sander with 80 grit, then 150, same machine, also block sanding into corners with same grits by hand. If real finicky, sand to 220 but it's not a big deal to go that far on a sole, you'll never see it and varnish will grip well if not overly smooth and soles get a lot of wear compared to other items.
    It's a good idea to thin by 50% the first coat or two, though manufacturers of varnish do not necessarily recommend this for added grip/penetration. I do it and I've never do any tests to see which way is best. I err on the side of thinning because it doesn't harm anything and can only help I suppose.
     

  15. SukiSolo
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    SukiSolo Senior Member

    Well said Alan. I completely concur, only thing maybe to add is finish sand by hand WITH the grain to eliminate the cross graoin scratches from the RO sander.
     
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