bridge design - feedback request

Discussion in 'OnBoard Electronics & Controls' started by expedition, Jun 12, 2009.

  1. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    And that is the reason why even I do not install the instruments as I recommend.

    Joe pedestrian, at the fancy boatshow does not grasp the reason, therefore they are mountd the "right" way, port engine left, stbd. engine right, looks nice and symmetric. On the larger craft, where you have a personal contact to the client, thats different of course.

    But thats not Thorwalds problem, the customer owns the boat already.

    Thorwald reread my recommendation on the VHF positioning. I have seen half a dozen newbuilt´s in the past 4 weeks, all have the same, idiotic overhead setup.
    http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/on...design-feedback-request-27838.html#post280761

    Richard
     
  2. wardd
    Joined: Apr 2009
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    wardd Senior Member


    in aviation in my experience all instruments are grouped by function some with white lines around each group so you know all instruments within that box have the same function for all engines or systems
     
  3. larry larisky

    larry larisky Previous Member

    nice ship. my kind of ship. i worked on them. no fancy electronics like yours. but your ship is a yacht, so money is not a problem..
     
  4. BTPost
    Joined: Dec 2009
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    BTPost Junior Member

    One of the biggest mistakes made in Bridge Design, is to group the Radios in one place, especially when more than one VHF Radio is required for Compliance with the Bridge to Bridge Radiotelephone Act, here in the USA. It is very hard to figure out which radio, is Squawking at you, without watching the Display if they are next to each other. Get them mounted Right, and Left,of the Operating Position, so you know by where the sound is coming from, which radio is Squawking, and which one to answer. Been on MANY vessels over the years and, rarely are the VHF's Bunched up, once they leave the shipyard for the Maiden Voyage. Just Say'en...
     
  5. mydauphin
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    mydauphin Senior Member

    Good point and also learn to have multiple radios gps, antennas, using multiple power sources feeding different parts of bridge. No single source of failure and then I have radios in boxes.
     
  6. FAST FRED
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    FAST FRED Senior Member

    On the stuff I flew the gauges were mounted so all were parallel with the deck in normal cruise.Everything in a neat row ,,,, all's well.

    The old DC 8's had dozens and dozens at the flight engineers station, all that was required was to lean back and look for a limp needle .

    Another concept from aviation is a grease pencil, just put a mark over all the needles and you don't have to remember a thing , just take a look to see changes.

    Most aircraft have colored rings on the gauges , green for fine , yellow to take a look and see whats up, and red to show out of limits.

    All these are sold really cheap on line from any aircraft builders source.


    We operate as a yacht , so not all watch standers have any training on our boat.

    I really like a setup with Murphy Mfg Co gauges.

    These have hi or low settable points that can ring an alarm, or if you prefer , secure the engine automatically.

    Most are mechanical, tho electric is sold too.

    WE prefer the extra safety of the mechanical as the diesel runs fine with no electric , so why not be able to monitor it ?

    With "yacht" style crewing , the watch stander is sitting on a comfy couch in the pilot house ,AP remote control in hand , with 360 deg visibility and a lap top visible being fed by a GPS.

    Needless to say the exact engine limits are not memorized by the watchstander ( or gauges that easy to see) so a close set alarm gets the skipper in an instant when the horn blows. Viva Pavlov!

    FF
     
  7. Anytec1210
    Joined: Aug 2010
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    Anytec1210 Junior Member

    Knee high

    The problems with monitors at night are easy improved by lowering their positions. Most helm stations are not designed for this, and those who are still tend to become more like a pile of gear on top of a table in front of you.

    In my office I have this layout, where the monitors are lowered almost down to your knees, giving you a perfect balance between access and control over your instruments and a clear non interfered view to the outside. It has been done with a more car/truck driver seat in mind rather than the traditional ship bride.

    Se this as an example to really think about the vertical positions and that you probably can be bolder than you think. It’s easy to end up with a bunch of desktop computers in front of you and this may feel awkward at first but I can reassure it’s not.

    About instruments I agree to apex and others that paired analogues are the best. If you still like to go for a digital system, make sure that you then can display the data in paired analogues so you can catch any anomalies without reading them.

    Last. I don’t forget to think about the bridge in the aspect of a social area. Some old t0rawler-pirate might object but if you go for a 3 month cruise/expedition with people you know and like and spend most of that time on the bride, the whole trip will be many times enjoyable with some company. If people are able to join you at the bridge without feeling that are in the way, they will.

    Cool project .. good luck
     

    Attached Files:

  8. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    Nice idea Anytec, and to some extend that does function on a modern bridge.

    But on most ships (this is not a boat) we have to deal with the wheel in front of the helmsman, making this setup impossible.

    The old Trawler pirate spent more years on contemporary bridges than on old fashioned.
    And he would agree with your comment, if this was a boat used by family crew, but this is not the case here.
    For professional crew it is inacceptable to have guests sitting on the bridge. That is the only place on board, above WL, where crew can be undisturbed by guests, and it has to be so!
    If you provide comfortable seating, all social gathering takes place almost exclusively on the bridge while underway. A unbelievable pain in the *** for payed crew.
    And I would not provide more than one observer seat on my family operated yacht too! It is just not the place for gathering and communication when at sea. On smaller boats that is a bit different, but on ocean going vessels the bridge is working room, nothing else.

    Regards
    Richard
     
  9. wardd
    Joined: Apr 2009
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    wardd Senior Member

    no real ships instrument is under 6 inches in diameter nor newer than 80 years old
     
  10. Anytec1210
    Joined: Aug 2010
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    Anytec1210 Junior Member

    Maybe I did miss something here about the purpose of this wessel. If you have paying passengers and crew, the bridge is off limits. No doubt.

    Got stuck perhps to the words "private expedition yatch" in how this ship was described. Carry paying passengers to photo some wales and icebergs is not an "expedition" to me. That´s charter.
    A friend has converted an old 170 ft icebreaker into a non comercial expedition/diving platform. When he is out on an expedition, basically everybody aboard are crew (family and friends) so I agree to what´s been said and don´t think the bridge should accomodate a snack bar or lounge. However if you pursue on a real expedition the bridge will also in a way act as a mission controll center.
     
  11. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    This is a conversion of a 40meter something, Dutch North Sea Trawler.
    And no matter paying or not, passengers or owners family should not be on the bridge while under way.

    I am talking from own experiece on my yachts of similar and even bigger size. But I was Crew as well, being master of my own vessel.
    For occasional guests the bridge was off limits when at sea.
    My last yacht did not provide any seating for guests anymore. Just two helmchairs.

    Of course on a 20 meter boat, things are much different.

    Regards
    Richard
     
  12. mydauphin
    Joined: Apr 2007
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    mydauphin Senior Member

    On my boat , 20M, the mostly used steering station is on top bridge. The Main Bridge would only be used in bad weather. Therefore I have dual anything right there. In todays world with all the electronics it is possible to make control stations smaller. Half the bridge in both is a sit/l lay down casual area. The half main bridge has a table and a built in chairs right against windshield. In a private yacht why waste a lot of space if you don't need it. Dual use of space.
     
  13. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    As I said, a 20m boat is a different animal. But that was not the size we are talking here, this is about the real business, ships.

    Regards
    Richard
     
  14. mydauphin
    Joined: Apr 2007
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    mydauphin Senior Member

    Are there any legal requirements on bridge design?
     

  15. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    No, not for yachts.
     
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